Comment by Kirby Urner on 2nd mo. 25, 2018 at 6:38pm

https://ww2.kqed.org/forum/2011/12/20/rabbi-michael-lerner/
Regarding my alluding to a "no state solution", there I'm echoing Rabbi Lerner, more from the Liberal end of the spectrum than from ultra Orthodox. I'll link to an old podcast for anyone wishing more background on said teacher's views.

Comment by Forrest Curo on 2nd mo. 25, 2018 at 8:58pm

Yes, but Jewish people can be as reluctant to come out against Israel as Americans can be to admit that our last election was stolen by antidemocratic Americans.

There was a lot of hope invested in that dream, just as there's been a lot of hope invested in ours... Some very good people can feel intensely hurt when someone pops that kind of hope.

Comment by Kirby Urner on 2nd mo. 26, 2018 at 1:13pm

Absolutely. These Orthodox, like Quakers, feel a draft into military service is an attack upon Judaism itself the way they understand it.  If the threat were less existential, they wouldn't feel driven to Youtube to express themselves, a somewhat desperate act with unpredictable consequences. 

Most of those practicing Judaism feel less under attack by a military draft that would yank their kids out of the Yeshivas and teach them to blow up Palestinians instead. Ditto most Christians, quite happy to contribute to the carnage, as long as they stay on the "winning" side.

That's why I find it particularly appropriate for Friends such as myself to seek out counterparts in other faith traditions. Another focus: the Gulen movement, pacifists who'd rather be friends with the Kurds (read "N8V Americans") than bomb them (read "Turks" -- a kind of Yanqui). 

My outreach is through our respective higher education circuits:  lets all teach tetravolumes as a great contribution from American literature. We're patriotic, proud of Mark Twain, MLK, a bunch of others (Richard Stallman...).  So far, the response is encouraging.

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