All throughout the whole of various religious contexts there is a sentiment that acting and contemplation are different; that you have to come off the mountain to act.

This sentiment is misplaced. It may be that Moses had to come off the mountain to share God's words, however, it is not the case in the immediacy of Presence. Under the new covenant, inward Christ is the mountain and we are now blessed with mountaintop rest while acting at the same time.

Views: 147

Comment by James C Schultz on 2nd mo. 3, 2015 at 12:55pm

Can you define your understanding of PRESENCE?

Comment by Keith Saylor on 2nd mo. 3, 2015 at 6:01pm

James, Thank your question. I have tried to be relatively succinct in my response, mindful that I can run on too long. I hope this response at least leads to further discussion and debate and cordiality.

I will share the experience of Presence not an intellectual understanding of it. The essence of Presence is non-intellectual.

In the negative sense.

Presence is the experience of existence or consciousness without reference to sensual (the five senses), intellectual, ideological, emotive, or will, context.

In other words:

The inward Presence of Christ is the experience of existence or consciousness without regard to the bodily nature.

In the positive sense.

Presence is the inspired experience of existence or consciousness sustained in itself.

In other words:

The inward presence of Christ is the experience of existence or consciousness sustained in the experience of Christ's presence itself.

Okay so what? The wonderful gift of Christ is we all have a measure of inward Presence. Because of the gift of the Presence, imagination can help kick start inspiration.

In our worldly or bodily state (reflected consciousness), our experience of self or consciousness or self-consciousness is reflected through the mirrors of the five senses, thoughts, feelings, desires, and will. To confirm this, we need only imagine our-selves without these. Imagine being without the sense of smell, taste, hearing, touch, and sight. Now imagine no thoughts, feelings, desires, or will. In imagining being without these, we come up against, through experience, the limits of reflective consciousness or the natural nature or the bodily nature. In essence, we imagine and experience the death of the physical body. We experience consciousness cannot sustain upon the death of the body because it is reflected through the mirror of the bodily nature. In this imagining we are directly experiencing a spiritual baptism wherein we are submerged in spiritual water and experience the meaning of the death of the body.

Now, rest in that experience. Hold to the fear of the loss of consciousness in the resulting darkness without the body's reflective nature. The mirrors are shattered ...

Now, imagine who or what is left? Wait patiently in the quiet of the shattered reflected consciousness filled with any number of sensual reflections, thoughts, desires, etc. In this waiting, intuit or spiritual sense that abiding Presence.

Slowly, imagination will yield to inspiration and you will experience a Presence that is always right there with you but the that bodily nature overshadows with reflections. This Presence never leaves. As conscious is given over to this measure of being or existence in itself (Presence) it is enlightened more and more and the darkness folds in on itself and there is a Presence there that encompasses the darkness. This experience of being or existence in itself (Presence) will reveal and increase in accordance with unveiling Presence itself and our willingness to wait in our measure of experienced life in itself (Presence). This revealing is the experience of coming up out of the water of spiritual baptism into a new life, being born again into the Presence itself which sustains consciousness even upon the death of the body. Now this Presence itself is consciousness anchoring conscious and informing conscience not through the outward mirrors of the of a mind that exists through outward reflections or the bodily nature.

Presence is the inspired experience of existence or consciousness sustained in itself.

Comment by Diane Benton on 2nd mo. 3, 2015 at 9:19pm

As I waited for a definition of Presence, the words "sentient energy" came to me.  That was a new phrase for me.  One which fits my experience.  It's what energizes my mortal body. (But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Rom 8:11)

I cannot explain how I became aware of that.  It's a gift I've received from Presence.  My desire is that Presence in me will inspire awareness in others.

Comment by James C Schultz on 2nd mo. 3, 2015 at 9:55pm

I think of what you describe as Presence as the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit or The Spirit.  However I also on a few, too few, occasions am overpowered by His Presence to the extent I experience physical sensations of warmth and peace which trigger physical reactions such as tears and joy - no Holy laughter yet:). in addition I have experienced on maybe three occasions an awareness of a separate and distinct being behind me.  I believe the five physical senses feed the brain which can be accessed by us as a Soul.  We Souls can also have the ability to access the Spirit World.  When the Holy Ghost is present in the Soul we have access to untold riches in the spirit world if we can train ourselves to ignore the constant sensory signals received by the brain.  I think this is the discipline that those advocates of "mindfulness", "Experiment with the Light" and "Focus" are involved with.  They are all creating systems to access the divine that lives within us.  However the Holy Ghost isn't the only source of spiritual data so it's important to be well grounded.   So to sum it all up I think we are arriving at a similar truth.  Just coming from different backgrounds which influence our verbiage.  Thanks for your answer. 

Comment by Diane Benton on 2nd mo. 4, 2015 at 12:41pm

James, your words come up against me quite favorably and I agree that we are arriving at a similar truth.  What a joy!  An interesting aside is that for me "to train" has come to denote coupling to an engine.

Comment by Keith Saylor on 2nd mo. 4, 2015 at 2:04pm

James, yes, I know that experience of warmth and tearful joy and peace in the spiritual body. There was a time in my life when I wanted for nothing materially and a time of extreme material lack and various stages between. I have literally lived on the road moving from place to place working odd jobs to pay for food and bus tickets as I migrated around the country. There were times I slept beneath bridges and my companions were prostitutes, people just tired of the rat race and refused to live that life, people on drugs, people who lost play and could not find it so their minds were disoriented. In these times, Presence ever abided and anchored ... always and in all things. Presence was/is warmth in outward cold. Presence was/is joy in outward need. Presence was is peace in outward conflict. Presence is the mountaintop upon which we can anchor; even as we live our daily lives we can, through the inspired power of Presence itself, stay on the mountaintop, above the clouds, with an eternal orientation.

Diane I love what you wrote about inspired Presence within you spilling over into the lives of others.   That are those moments when Presence births from the very pores of the body and life mingles with life and Presence happens in others as a result of others living Presence. A spiritual osmosis. The very act of living inward Presence manifests Presence in others, this is faith and hope in action. It is a blessing when people are restored and renewed through the power of Presence. To experience another's inward eyes light up in lost play restored, and to play and unite with them on spiritual meadows, is salvation itself. Thank you James and Diane.

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