QuakerQuaker

Primitive Christianity Revived, Again

marv ostberg
  • 75
  • Princeton, NJ
  • United States
Share on Facebook
Twitter
  • Blogs (1)
  • Discussions (2)
  • Quaker Gatherings
  • Quaker Beliefs/Groups
  • Quaker Photos
  • Photo Albums
  • Quaker Videos

Marv ostberg's Friends

  • Forrest Curo

marv ostberg's Discussions

Aches and pains and other practical matters
3 Replies

Started this discussion. Last reply by Rosemary Gould 11th month 30, 2010.

 

marv ostberg's Page

Latest Activity

Forrest Curo left a comment for marv ostberg
"Do I mean to say I think you're doing what I say you're doing? Yes.   Are you doing something else, a little closer to what I'm suggesting? I think I can interpret what you're saying in that way.   I'm neither…"
8th month 25, 2011
marv ostberg left a comment for Forrest Curo
"What did I make up?   I used the word rationalization because everyone knows there are risks in helping people so to say something bad could happen is very, very obvious.  So much so that I do not know what else to say, except that I…"
8th month 25, 2011
marv ostberg left a comment for Forrest Curo
"If the comment about "unnecessary roughness" is meant for me I think you misread me.   For starters what do you mean by that?  I have never been a violent person except for one time a bigger guy knocked me down for no good…"
8th month 25, 2011
Forrest Curo left a comment for marv ostberg
"Okay, here we have an example of what I was talking about: "Forrest I would have loved to discuss that particular rationalization with your father."    When you are trying to keep your disagreements with people…"
8th month 24, 2011
marv ostberg left a comment for Forrest Curo
"Forrest I would have loved to discuss that particular rationalization with your father.   Based on that logic most people would never take a chance on helping someone in distress or dying.  Yes, you have to try to size up a situation…"
8th month 24, 2011
Forrest Curo left a comment for marv ostberg
"Different people have different ideas of what being "peaceful about minor disagreements" looks like. An ambulance driver I knew helped pick up a couple of guys who had been thumping each other with 2X4's: One of the neighbors told…"
8th month 24, 2011
marv ostberg left a comment for Forrest Curo
"It has been my thought for some time that if people cannot even be peaceful about minor disagreements how in the world can they ever get together on major issues.  Where I do feel strongly is that if innocents are dying in large numbers…"
8th month 24, 2011
Forrest Curo left a comment for marv ostberg
"Thee assumes too much, and assumptions have a way of blocking the view.   I've learned things from people who saw matters differently. If anyone saw things exactly the same as I did, I doubt we could learn much from each…"
8th month 23, 2011
marv ostberg left a comment for Forrest Curo
"Tis true that likely when someone agrees with everything we say likely they are being dishonest and really not very helpful in the long run.  But the same goes for totally disagreeing  with someone.  Somewhere along the way we are…"
8th month 22, 2011
marv ostberg left a comment for Alice M Yaxley
"Alice - it is good to hear from you again after several years where I have been involved in other things.  You are still young, but less so than before, eh?  Anyway, yes, I too am aware that some tried to help each other in that horrible…"
8th month 22, 2011
Forrest Curo left a comment for marv ostberg
"What good is a friend who agrees on everything?"
8th month 22, 2011
marv ostberg commented on Kevin Camp's blog post 'Simplicity Even In Complicated Decisions'
"Let me suggest a peaceful solution.   There are things we could do now to help in Somalia, keeping in mind that food being delivered is being stolen now and refugees are being brutalized..  I give as an example Ruwanda of 15 years ago…"
8th month 20, 2011
marv ostberg posted a status
"The points discussed on Quaker Quaker are very relevant, but I see a pretty one sided point of view on most of these Thus, alternatives"
8th month 19, 2011
marv ostberg commented on Kevin Camp's blog post 'Simplicity Even In Complicated Decisions'
"Have not been here for a while, but I surely see a lot of hopelessness.  Part of the problem is being so sure that you yourselves are right and those you disagree with are wrong.  Thus, you also see part of the solution.  What you…"
8th month 19, 2011
marv ostberg commented on Jess Easter's blog post 'My Quaker relationship with G-d'
"Thank you.  I am back after an absense.  While I am not a Quaker, I am also not a not a Quaker.  By that I mean that I have been seeking what I call intersections of fundamental values to be found in other faiths or non-faith…"
5th month 7, 2011
Rosemary Gould replied to marv ostberg's discussion 'Aches and pains and other practical matters'
"A relative has Parkinson's and she was told that the best thing she could do (aside from medication) to slow the progress of it was to do Tai Chi every day. (Peer reviewed blind studies said so!) My very rudimentary understanding of the word,…"
11th month 30, 2010

Marv ostberg's Blog

avoiding simplicity and being humble is good

here is the thing: i am a navy vet and even though i never had to fire a gun in defense or anger i am aware that in some way i may have contributed to deaths even though i served in peacetime - the eisenhower presidency. but i was also there as a representative of our culture to japan and other places in the far east. yet, i humbly concern myself that in some way i may have contributed to violence.



now then i do not hear any of the same type of humiity from quakers or others of the… Continue

Posted on 5th mo. 24, 2009 at 9:25pm — 7 Comments

Comment Wall (6 comments)

You need to be a member of QuakerQuaker to add comments!

Join QuakerQuaker

At 11:16am on 8th mo. 25, 2011, Forrest Curo said…

Do I mean to say I think you're doing what I say you're doing? Yes.

 

Are you doing something else, a little closer to what I'm suggesting? I think I can interpret what you're saying in that way.

 

I'm neither prosecuting nor offering a plea bargain here: Guilty or not, you are likely to find that the alternative I've suggested works better.

 

The discussion on best ways to respond to terrible situations remains available on 'Forum'.

 

But since you did ask: I mean that if you want to assist at a childbirth, the first step is to wash your hands.

 

Another example: The worst known outbreak of Ebola, so far, was the direct result of the noble, self-sacrificing, whole-hearted efforts of nurses at a badly-funded charity hospital. They could afford neither reusable needles nor the equipment needed to sufficiently sterilize them, and they gave themselves their b12 injections using the same syringes with which they gave injections to the patients they loved. One of the infected nurses wandered in a feverish delirium through a large and congested African city without infecting a single resident; this was not a particularly contagious strain. But strains of anything, passed from host to host via injections, typically do become more virulent, as the death rate among nurses and patients from that hospital does illustrate.

 

We agree that things are terrible in a distant place where I don't know the language or the people or what my government is doing to help/exploit/worsen the situation. [I expect that, as usual, they are doing all three, which would make this a dubious place for me to go. But thee may have travel money and appropriate skills? If you go, I strongly advise against any means of help that involve killing people you find obstructive; the available evidence so far suggests that while this works really well at killing people, it is less effective at helping them.]

At 11:55pm on 8th mo. 24, 2011, Forrest Curo said…

Okay, here we have an example of what I was talking about: "Forrest I would have loved to discuss that particular rationalization with your father." 

 

When you are trying to keep your disagreements with people "peaceful", assuming that their statements are "rationalizations" doesn't work well.

 

If you ever have a reason to be more interested in 'scoring points' against a position than in honestly weighing its validity (or lack thereof), questioning your opponent's motives can be a useful tactic.

 

If you believe that's your purpose, then go for it!

 

But giving you (why not?) the benefit of the doubt: that you'd rather understand what an opponent means to say-- when you don't know, it is probably better to ask what they meant than to make up something ridiculous, then argue with it.

At 1:32am on 8th mo. 24, 2011, Forrest Curo said…

Different people have different ideas of what being "peaceful about minor disagreements" looks like. An ambulance driver I knew helped pick up a couple of guys who had been thumping each other with 2X4's: One of the neighbors told him: "They do this all the time; they love each other."

 

There are things you can do that make dealing with disagreements easier, things that make it harder. If new examples occur we can talk about that.

 

But there is a discussion I added today-- on what best to do about the fact that people are suffering needlessly everywhere.

 

My father used to say (He knew a lot of highway patrol cops) that a lot of people died because someone grabbed their arms to help them out of a wreck. If their collar bone was broken, that could easily kill them. I don't know if that was true, but you can take it as an example of the sort of thing you should think about if you want to help people.

 

I don't know what you're called to do to help mitigate the truly horrible situation you brought up recently. Looks like the chief need is for somebody good at talking to negotiate a way through the ugly politics that seem to be the key bottleneck. Not try to shoot a way through. But it isn't something I do well.

At 2:35am on 8th mo. 23, 2011, Forrest Curo said…

Thee assumes too much, and assumptions have a way of blocking the view.

 

I've learned things from people who saw matters differently. If anyone saw things exactly the same as I did, I doubt we could learn much from each other.

 

Sometimes agreement simply means: People are looking at the same thing, and we see it the same because that's what's there. And sometimes it means, 'Everybody's been looking through the same warped lens.'

 

That's where disagreement can be enlightening: 'If I were over there, then __ would look that way.'

 

Or, alternatively, 'If I had my head stuck there, it would be very dark.'

 

Thee has been a difficult person, indulging in considerable unnecessary roughness, apparently believing that you know what I mean better than I do.

 

You want better relations; so do I. So let's just start from that!

At 12:19am on 8th mo. 22, 2011, Forrest Curo said…
What good is a friend who agrees on everything?
At 10:24am on 8th mo. 9, 2009, Alice M Yaxley said…
Hello Marv! Thanks for your comment on my wall. Yup, the centre of our city was bombed flat in WW2 because it was a centre for munitions factories - which weren't hit because they were round the edge of the city. So Coventry has a big commitment to peace and reconciliation now.

One of the friends at our meeting is a survivor of the Rwandan genocide. It's not true to say no-one did anything: people tried to help and hide each other, and some saved each other. Such events don't come from nowhere: they erupt from injustices and oppression, hurt upon hurt and lies and incitement. Interrupting the causes of violence is where I put my energy.

The transforming power of God has the possibility for redeeming each of us, wiping away the hurts we have received, and leading us to live useful lives of healing and reconciliation. That's where my hope is for overcoming wars. When I live in the light of Christ Jesus's life, I am working to end the cycle of violence.
 
 
 

Quakers

About QuakerQuaker

QuakerQuaker is a community of Friends exploring Primitive Christianity Revived: plain witness, ministry, beliefs. Quaker blogs, photos, videos & gatherings. Learn More.

Subscribe in a reader
Get daily emails
Facebook
iTunes / Podcast
Twitter / Twitter Quaker List

Support:

Make a One-Time Online Donation (Paypal)

Make a $10 Monthly Recurring Donation

Advertise

Latest Activity

Irene Lape posted blog posts
29 minutes ago
Stephanie Stuckwisch posted a blog post

Encounter with an Inebriated Angel on a Metro Bus

I've met people who I've thought of as angels. Generally, they've been kind, soft spoken and d0 not…See More
8 hours ago
William F Rushby replied to Missy's discussion 'Where's the Quaker in Quaker?'
"My response to your comments is that a collection of people called Friends who want to function as…"
11 hours ago
Olivia replied to Missy's discussion 'Where's the Quaker in Quaker?'
"Okay, what about this version then: Anyone who WANTS to join together, and do the hard work of…"
11 hours ago
Olivia replied to Aaron Clark's discussion 'The Differences Between Christians And Quakers'
"Good idea to share these thoughts, Ian! What does real Christian or follower of Christ mean to…"
11 hours ago
Carol Holmes updated their profile
13 hours ago
Carol Holmes shared a profile on Twitter
13 hours ago
Paula Deming replied to Missy's discussion 'Where's the Quaker in Quaker?'
"I'm with you, Olivia. I agree. I have no answers. And others may say I'm all wet.…"
13 hours ago
David Nelson Seaman updated their profile
14 hours ago
Olivia replied to Missy's discussion 'Where's the Quaker in Quaker?'
"So then are we utterly failing to be Ourselves......IN COMMUNITY ?? When faced with the fact that…"
14 hours ago
Paula Deming replied to Missy's discussion 'Where's the Quaker in Quaker?'
"William, thank you for your observations. I have been contemplating what Howard wrote and have felt…"
16 hours ago
Jim Wilson posted a blog post

Robert Barclay and Quaker Quietism

In the ‘Introduction’ to ‘The Second Period of Quakerism’ by William Braithwaite, Rufus Jones…See More
16 hours ago

© 2012   Created by QuakerQuaker.

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service