Kirby Urner
  • Male
  • Portland, OR
  • United States
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Kirby Urner's Friends

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Kirby Urner's Discussions

Improving Living Conditions

Started this discussion. Last reply by Kirby Urner on 2nd day (Mon). 1 Reply

Some reasons for optimism:https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of-global-living-conditions-in-5-charts/"Be…Continue

Orthodox vs Evangelical vs Protestant

Started this discussion. Last reply by Kirby Urner 7th month 9. 1 Reply

Wearing my anthropology hat, I'm tuning in recent haps in Christendom, chief among them, apparently, being the Bible Answer Man, a radio personality, affiliated with Christian Research Institute,…Continue

Copying Quakerism

Started this discussion. Last reply by Kirby Urner 3rd month 20. 1 Reply

I've come to see Quakerism as a role playing opportunity, where you get to work with other adults on a live business with a social conscience.Mostly we don't get those opportunities in our daily…Continue

Friends Discussing Racism

Started 2nd month 18 0 Replies

[ excerpt from one of Multnomah's several listservs, this one a study group that includes film-watching ]Really interesting documentary about a black man who tries to befriend members of the Klan and…Continue

 

Kirby Urner's Page

Latest Activity

Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Improving Living Conditions'
"Role model Quaker:  Kenneth Boulding, a contributor to the emerging field of GST (General Systems Theory). Joe Havens was another contributor, under the heading of Quaker Economics, predated publication of Quakernomics, one of the best books on…"
2nd day (Mon)
Kirby Urner posted a discussion

Improving Living Conditions

Some reasons for optimism:https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of-global-living-conditions-in-5-charts/"Be patterns, be examples in all countries, places, islands, nations, wherever you go, so that your carriage and life may preach among all sorts of people, and to them. Then you will come to walk cheerfully over the world, answering that of God in every one. Thereby you can be a blessing in them and…See More
2nd day (Mon)
Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'My Role Model Quakers'
"If looking for some more meaningful discussion... I'm not sure the word "saint" applies but I'm happy to acknowledgeRichard Stallman as a latter day bodhisattva.   Not a Quaker though,that I know of.  Doesn't…"
7th month 14
Kirby Urner replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Your Assignment, Should You Choose To Accept It'
"You wanna know how Quakers respond so I speak for myself and cite my Good Works; I'm helping bring an end to Western Civilization, and feeling upbeat about it."
7th month 13
Kirby Urner replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Your Assignment, Should You Choose To Accept It'
"I often seem off topic or dabbling in irrelevancies to your thread, it seems to you, is what I think. To review: an article you linked to expressed some despondency over the decline of so-called Western Civilization, asking how Quakers might be…"
7th month 13
Kirby Urner replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Your Assignment, Should You Choose To Accept It'
"Our Urner household is in a somewhat jubilant mood these days, as the long awaited Nuclear Weapons Ban Treaty has passed the General Assembly, Iran a chief supporter. The loser nuke head nations say "this doesn't apply to us" and the…"
7th month 13
Kirby Urner replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Your Assignment, Should You Choose To Accept It'
"BTW, I do like Chris Hedges, he's just so doomy gloomy, which I associate with fire and brimstone preachers. Glad to see he's on RT, such a better network than CNN: https://www.rt.com/onair-talent/chris-hedges/ Frances Moore Lappé…"
7th month 13
Kirby Urner replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Your Assignment, Should You Choose To Accept It'
"Looking back over history, of disease, pestilence, wars, slavery, major dislocations, cataclysms... I readily agree a 'Welcome to Hell Planet' might be apropos at the entrance. But then God made us with the ability to suffer and have…"
7th month 10
Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Orthodox vs Evangelical vs Protestant'
"Here's a newspaper article about the controversy around Hank:http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living/religion/article154030349.html"
7th month 9
Kirby Urner replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Your Assignment, Should You Choose To Accept It'
"If it's all one then I think it's time to drop this term "Western" as antediluvian.  I don't think it's all crumbling, just some psychologies (mindsets) are.  That's why death is a good thing.  We…"
7th month 9
Kirby Urner replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Your Assignment, Should You Choose To Accept It'
"I wonder about this term "Western Civilization" and what it really means.  China has the most trains and freeways now right?  Are we talking about systems of government?  Maybe we should switch our attention to "Eastern…"
7th month 9
Kirby Urner posted a discussion

Orthodox vs Evangelical vs Protestant

Wearing my anthropology hat, I'm tuning in recent haps in Christendom, chief among them, apparently, being the Bible Answer Man, a radio personality, affiliated with Christian Research Institute, switching from Protestant to Orthodox.  That made lots of waves.  Search on Hank Hanegraaff.There's a whole genre of Youtube featuring personal testimony of newly Orthodox explaining why they've left their (usually Evangelical) churches.For those just tuning in, I'm from the Liberal branch, but I have…See More
7th month 9
Kirby Urner replied to Howard Brod's discussion 'Mysticism: The 'Engine' of liberal Quakerism (anonymous article from a Quaker library)' in the group Liberal Quakers
"Also apropos, mentions Quaker Meeting: http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2017/01/i-robot.html"
6th month 22
Kirby Urner replied to Howard Brod's discussion 'Mysticism: The 'Engine' of liberal Quakerism (anonymous article from a Quaker library)' in the group Liberal Quakers
"Thanks for this discussion thread.  Here's a reading of a work by a mystic I've brought up before, Maurice Nicoll, a Scottish Jungian who trod in the footsteps of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky: https://youtu.be/do_MckpQHO4 I find a lot…"
6th month 20
Kirby Urner replied to Scott Martin's discussion 'Some Thoughts on Meeting Committee Structure' in the group Liberal Quakers
"Different schools of thought pertain.  Keith marks the far end in one direction, whereas I might anchor the opposite pole. For me, Quakerism provides a role playing game wherein members of the general public have both a means and a method for…"
6th month 2
Kirby Urner commented on Keith Saylor's blog post 'The Line You Shall Not Cross'
"The outward weapons of this protectorate are religious and political ideology, theology, tradition, similitudes, practices, etc. Keith and I tend to end up with different meanings for inward versus outward weapons. I consider the latter to be aimed…"
5th month 26

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About Me
Facebook: thekirbster

Autobio: http://wikieducator.org/User:KirbyUrner/Autobio

Member of IT Committee, North Pacific Yearly Meeting
Website/Blog
http://4dsolutions.net
Twitter Page
http://twitter.com/4DsolutionsPDX

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Kirby Urner's Blog

A Quaker Men's Group

Posted on 3rd mo. 13, 2017 at 1:00pm 0 Comments



I've been a stalwart of this Men's Group for many years now, although I was not present at its inception.



When I moved back to Portland and sought friendship, twas the regional Gathering of Western Young Friends to which I felt attracted. Such beautiful people (Pan, Kate...). I still think so.



However by now, in my late fifties, versus late…
Continue

On Racism Again

Posted on 2nd mo. 3, 2017 at 6:03pm 0 Comments

:: stand-up philosophy by Wes Cecil ::


What I wrote on Facebook:

Really enjoyed this, because he's doing philosophy and standup comedy at the same time. Gets my…
Continue

War Studies

Posted on 1st mo. 16, 2017 at 3:16pm 0 Comments

DSCF2938


That famous folk song that goes "ain't gonna study war no more" seems clearly in the back of the mind of our writer, Friend Wolf Mendl, as he opens with a defense: "Why would a Quaker, a subclass of Pacifist, study and/or play war games?"  Obviously, in order to end…
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13th (movie review)

Posted on 1st mo. 8, 2017 at 1:30pm 2 Comments

Friends gathered at the Stark Street meetinghouse for this public-invited showing of 13th, a widely distributed, award-winning documentary about the ongoing cultural and civil war in North America.

Although Lincoln declared the slaves free, an opening shot in his war to preserve the Union, the South was not on board with providing them with full human rights overnight.  Women couldn't vote yet either.  A system of apartheid…

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At 11:59pm on 3rd mo. 2, 2016, Keith Saylor said…

Hello Kirby,

While I agree with your sentiment to it is not about either/or.

For me, it is an issue of just being honest about the reality. There just are many people, by their own admission and not my characterization, whose conscious is anchored in and whose conscience is informed by outward forms generally speaking. These people make up the majority of people on this earth. There is also a smaller number of people on this earth whose conscious, generally speaking, is anchored in and whose conscience, generally speaking,  is informed by direct and unmediated inherent self-existence or Presence itself in itself without regard to outward practices, institutions, teachers, leaders, theologies, religions, etc. 

The very nature of the former is to break up into various outward "brands," as you say, while the later has no real issue with outward branding because they do not participate in that way of existence. They profess no outward marks, forms, or practices by which they themselves or others may know them as under the pale of direct and unmediated Presence itself in itself. It is the establishing of outward forms that nurture the manifestation of various brands. Those early Quakers, who followed Foxonian innovation, and eventually turned back again to established outward ways, practices, and traditions, nurtured the manifestation of the various brands that now make up the Quakerism of today that is anchored in and informed by outward forms. 

There has been those from the beginnings of the Children of Light, as there are today, who are not  stakeholders in the establishment and perpetuation of any outward religion, practice, tradition, politic, economy, institutions, etc. so that there is no occasion for branding or disunity amongst those gathered into and governed by direct and unmediated Spirit itself in itself.

Anarchy is the lack of governance. The Children of Light whose conscious is anchored in and whose conscience is informed by Presence know the direct and unmediated governance of the same Presence itself in itself. 

Thank you, Keith

At 9:22am on 3rd mo. 2, 2016, Keith Saylor said…

Hello Kirby,

Recently you wrote:

I'm a Wittgenstein student and don't buy that names point to things, even in the simple case. Words are tools and their use defines them, not some mysterious "pointing". "Language on the one hand, real object on the other" -- that's a simplification that only gets one entangled in confusions.

Mathematics is not metaphorical if it's not trying to be "about" anything beyond itself. Chess, the game, is not really a "metaphor" for a war either, or if it is, it's not a war like we've ever seen. Games have their own integrity. They don't need to be "metaphoric".

Note: Santa and Satan differ only by letter arrangement, like Dog and God.

Your words are compelling and I've spent much time with them. I appreciate your observation that "Games have their own integrity" and I agree. In the same way that equations, theologies, institutions, languages, etc. have their own integrity. The physical world has its own integrity. Ecosystems have their own integrity. Economies have their own integrity. Church frameworks have their own integrity. Idols or icons and similitudes have their own integrity. An idol certainly does not need to point to anything beyond itself and often does not. It has its own integrity. This is the reality of things for many people on this earth and I affirm the truth of it.

With that said, there are others on this earth who re-create (for example, participate in gaming or worship) in the very activity of living itself so that we do not engage in setting aside outward frameworks within which we go about re-creating or worshipping for that matter. While we acknowledge the existence of outward gaming and worship frameworks or platforms, we may not participate in them because we live in the activity of re-creating or worshipping itself in itself. Living in the activity of re-creating or worshipping in all moments and circumstance in daily life makes entering into an outwardly established gaming, economic, religious, worship, and political, platforms or frameworks unnecessary. As with many of the founding Quakers (not all), we do not participate in the establishment or setting aside of outward religious institutions and instrumentalities and practices because those outward forms are not relevant to our experience which is established Itself in itself. We participate in the activity of worship and re-creating in every moment of our lives. Our conscious is not anchored in and our conscience is not informed by outward gaming or worshipping frameworks. In the same way,  we do not set aside or participate holy-days because a conscious anchored in and a conscious informed in the activity of re-creating or worshipping itself in itself knows a life that is holy in all moments and circumstances. It is just not necessary to set aside outward special days and times of holiness or celebration; even as we acknowledge the "integrity" of those outward holy-days for many people even when those holy-days and the language of those holy-days are not metaphoric in any way.

Thanks you for your words.

Keith

At 6:03pm on 12th mo. 10, 2015, Forrest Curo said…

Yeah, it's a little backasswards how this works -- but then we don't end up with all the liter in the same place. I really agree about The Exam; I get Spot Quizzes instead. (I don't always like the way these turn out!)

I did a poem once abt:

'Practice the corpse pose;it will be on The Exam'

but then so are sunsets.

The trouble with "How effective were you as an activist?" is that Jesus would have flunked that one. So maybe it's not such a good question. At best (unless you died of being thumped by a cop) you'd still face a further question: "Yes, but what have you done for Me lately?"

At 5:09pm on 12th mo. 10, 2015, Forrest Curo said…

I'm liking your last rant over on Keith's piece (where it really is slightly off-topic, alas!)

But (begging the question of whether there is such a thing) I really can't see "How effective were you as an activist?" being among the questions on The Exam.

 
 
 

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