Kirby Urner
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  • Portland, OR
  • United States
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Kirby Urner's Discussions

Love Thyself as Thine Enemy

Started on 5th day (Thu) 0 Replies

Switched around this way, this Christian enjoinder makes plenty of sense.A true enemy deserves respect and admiration. The price for not accepting oneself as a worthy foe, is likely defeat.  But then…Continue

Israel is a Great Place

Started this discussion. Last reply by Kirby Urner 1st month 11. 1 Reply

[ The exchange below ensued in my Facebook profile around the time the AFSC was blacklisted by a political faction in Israel ]Jasand Pruski [Facebook friend]: the middle east is a particularly…Continue

Quakerism and Charter Schools

Started this discussion. Last reply by Kirby Urner 12th month 7, 2017. 4 Replies

"What if the Gulen schools start teaching the Bucky stuff, which US schools pointedly turned their backs on?  Yes, I'm talking about tet : cube : oct : RD : CO :: 1 : 3 : 4 : 6 : 20.  That's what I…Continue

Quaker Whalers

Started 11th month 16, 2017 0 Replies

Friends may be shy about sharing their whaler past, given superseding environmental concerns. Whaling took a lot of skills, not the least of which was navigating the high seas.I'm always looking at…Continue

 

Kirby Urner's Page

Latest Activity

Kirby Urner posted a discussion

Love Thyself as Thine Enemy

Switched around this way, this Christian enjoinder makes plenty of sense.A true enemy deserves respect and admiration. The price for not accepting oneself as a worthy foe, is likely defeat.  But then there's always blaming others, or one's fate.See More
5th day (Thu)
Kirby Urner commented on Chaplain Stogumber's blog post 'Rambling: Quaker or Anabaptist? A matter of class?'
"I enjoy the perspective of Quakerism as business friendly, as clearly, based on its jargon, it's business oriented through and through. Yet I think of Quakers today as stereotypically more likely public librarians, school teachers and/or social…"
4th day (Wed)
Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Israel is a Great Place'
1st month 11
Kirby Urner posted a discussion

Israel is a Great Place

[ The exchange below ensued in my Facebook profile around the time the AFSC was blacklisted by a political faction in Israel ]Jasand Pruski [Facebook friend]: the middle east is a particularly complex region, we shouldn't presume our wisdom surpasses that of the locals... israel often dissolves settlements and should the peace process be successful I don't doubt israel's commitment to carry out the terms.Me: Yeah, I've been known to disparage what I think of as do-gooder tourism where you visit…See More
1st month 11
Kirby Urner commented on Keith Saylor's blog post 'The Life itself in itself guides relationships and interactions'
"As for me, I still have my spiritual taste buds and don't intend on giving them up, as how I'm led by the Spirit is by my sense of sweet and savory (metaphorically speaking, but literally too). Some beers are too bland. Call me finicky…"
1st month 10
Kirby Urner commented on Keith Saylor's blog post 'The Life itself in itself guides relationships and interactions'
"Yes Keith, I share your experience in some measure, of the sufficiency of Life itself, and I'm led to exult in various ways in my prose.  It's just that whereas we may all drink from the same fountain, when we go to bottle it in the…"
1st month 10
Kirby Urner commented on Keith Saylor's blog post 'The Life itself in itself guides relationships and interactions'
"My question about this testimony is does it take one to know one, meaning do we recognize when others are living in the light without the burden of inward baggage? If so, whom might we link to Keith as likewise so enlightened?  Meister Eckhart?…"
1st month 10
Kirby Urner commented on James C Schultz's blog post 'Micah 6:8'
"I'm really enjoying the take on Genesis provided by Peter Sloterdijk, German language philosopher, in his book 'Bubbles' (book 1 of 3): that in giving the breath of life to Adam, He created an otherness that likewise defines…"
1st month 10
Kirby Urner commented on James C Schultz's blog post 'Idealism vs. Love'
"Yes, signalling respect is a core aspect of diplomacy, but as you say, hardwired reflexes may induce others to resent diplomats precisely for their willingness to engage in meaningful dialog. I remember how the Parliament of World Religions our…"
12th month 23, 2017
Kirby Urner commented on James C Schultz's blog post 'Idealism vs. Love'
"Since I'm something of a recruiter of geeks to Quakerism, I'm fine with "expectant waiting" as a time of software upgrades (vs. staying with what's already installed). A mantra we hear in my zip code area (97214), part of a…"
12th month 21, 2017
Kirby Urner commented on James C Schultz's blog post 'Idealism vs. Love'
"Yes, I think that's a very accessible and widely shared understanding of what "mind" means."
12th month 21, 2017
Kirby Urner commented on James C Schultz's blog post 'Idealism vs. Love'
"Not all Idealism springs from the mind but that which does leads to discouragement when its goals are not attained. Such discouragement can lead to anger, depression, resentment, cynicism (my personal favorite), and in the worse case, animosity…"
12th month 20, 2017
Kirby Urner commented on David Timothy Holdsworth's blog post 'Prophesy of peace fulfilled...'
""We had the Dark Ages, the Inquisitions and crusades, the endless violence of a Godless foreign policy, colonialism, two world wars, the cold war, two (that we know of) almost nuclear wars..." People tend to bleep over the fact that WW2…"
12th month 20, 2017
Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Quakerism and Charter Schools'
"For the most part, Quakers are not talking about this story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Brunson I am though. Holding a US citizen hostage on trumped up charges, in order to extort the extradition of Gulen, is another symptom of…"
12th month 7, 2017
Kirby Urner commented on Kirby Urner's blog post 'Jerusalem: World Capital'
12th month 6, 2017
Kirby Urner posted a blog post

Jerusalem: World Capital

As one respectful and grateful to science, and yet a believer in continuing revelation, to me it's clear what a Chosen People we are, as hominid inhabitants of this "Global U" or "universe city" called Earth.  Likewise I see our Promised Land is a spherical body, with a relatively large moon, situated amongst other such spherical bodies, none so much an Eden nor genesis zone.The theatrics of nation-states, on the other hand, seem increasingly phony to me, nothing serious enough on which to hang…See More
12th month 6, 2017

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Facebook: thekirbster

Autobio: http://wikieducator.org/User:KirbyUrner/Autobio

Member of IT Committee, North Pacific Yearly Meeting
Website/Blog
http://4dsolutions.net
Twitter Page
http://twitter.com/4DsolutionsPDX

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Kirby Urner's Blog

Jerusalem: World Capital

Posted on 12th mo. 6, 2017 at 11:30pm 1 Comment

As one respectful and grateful to science, and yet a believer in continuing revelation, to me it's clear what a Chosen People we are, as hominid inhabitants of this "Global U" or "universe city" called Earth.  Likewise I see our Promised Land is a spherical body, with a relatively large moon, situated amongst other such spherical bodies, none so much an Eden nor genesis zone.

The theatrics of nation-states, on the other hand, seem increasingly phony to me, nothing serious enough on…

Continue

A Quaker Men's Group

Posted on 3rd mo. 13, 2017 at 1:00pm 0 Comments



I've been a stalwart of this Men's Group for many years now, although I was not present at its inception.



When I moved back to Portland and sought friendship, twas the regional Gathering of Western Young Friends to which I felt attracted. Such beautiful people (Pan, Kate...). I still think so.



However by now, in my late fifties, versus late…
Continue

On Racism Again

Posted on 2nd mo. 3, 2017 at 6:03pm 0 Comments

:: stand-up philosophy by Wes Cecil ::


What I wrote on Facebook:

Really enjoyed this, because he's doing philosophy and standup comedy at the same time. Gets my…
Continue

War Studies

Posted on 1st mo. 16, 2017 at 3:16pm 0 Comments

DSCF2938


That famous folk song that goes "ain't gonna study war no more" seems clearly in the back of the mind of our writer, Friend Wolf Mendl, as he opens with a defense: "Why would a Quaker, a subclass of Pacifist, study and/or play war games?"  Obviously, in order to end…
Continue

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At 11:59pm on 3rd mo. 2, 2016, Keith Saylor said…

Hello Kirby,

While I agree with your sentiment to it is not about either/or.

For me, it is an issue of just being honest about the reality. There just are many people, by their own admission and not my characterization, whose conscious is anchored in and whose conscience is informed by outward forms generally speaking. These people make up the majority of people on this earth. There is also a smaller number of people on this earth whose conscious, generally speaking, is anchored in and whose conscience, generally speaking,  is informed by direct and unmediated inherent self-existence or Presence itself in itself without regard to outward practices, institutions, teachers, leaders, theologies, religions, etc. 

The very nature of the former is to break up into various outward "brands," as you say, while the later has no real issue with outward branding because they do not participate in that way of existence. They profess no outward marks, forms, or practices by which they themselves or others may know them as under the pale of direct and unmediated Presence itself in itself. It is the establishing of outward forms that nurture the manifestation of various brands. Those early Quakers, who followed Foxonian innovation, and eventually turned back again to established outward ways, practices, and traditions, nurtured the manifestation of the various brands that now make up the Quakerism of today that is anchored in and informed by outward forms. 

There has been those from the beginnings of the Children of Light, as there are today, who are not  stakeholders in the establishment and perpetuation of any outward religion, practice, tradition, politic, economy, institutions, etc. so that there is no occasion for branding or disunity amongst those gathered into and governed by direct and unmediated Spirit itself in itself.

Anarchy is the lack of governance. The Children of Light whose conscious is anchored in and whose conscience is informed by Presence know the direct and unmediated governance of the same Presence itself in itself. 

Thank you, Keith

At 9:22am on 3rd mo. 2, 2016, Keith Saylor said…

Hello Kirby,

Recently you wrote:

I'm a Wittgenstein student and don't buy that names point to things, even in the simple case. Words are tools and their use defines them, not some mysterious "pointing". "Language on the one hand, real object on the other" -- that's a simplification that only gets one entangled in confusions.

Mathematics is not metaphorical if it's not trying to be "about" anything beyond itself. Chess, the game, is not really a "metaphor" for a war either, or if it is, it's not a war like we've ever seen. Games have their own integrity. They don't need to be "metaphoric".

Note: Santa and Satan differ only by letter arrangement, like Dog and God.

Your words are compelling and I've spent much time with them. I appreciate your observation that "Games have their own integrity" and I agree. In the same way that equations, theologies, institutions, languages, etc. have their own integrity. The physical world has its own integrity. Ecosystems have their own integrity. Economies have their own integrity. Church frameworks have their own integrity. Idols or icons and similitudes have their own integrity. An idol certainly does not need to point to anything beyond itself and often does not. It has its own integrity. This is the reality of things for many people on this earth and I affirm the truth of it.

With that said, there are others on this earth who re-create (for example, participate in gaming or worship) in the very activity of living itself so that we do not engage in setting aside outward frameworks within which we go about re-creating or worshipping for that matter. While we acknowledge the existence of outward gaming and worship frameworks or platforms, we may not participate in them because we live in the activity of re-creating or worshipping itself in itself. Living in the activity of re-creating or worshipping in all moments and circumstance in daily life makes entering into an outwardly established gaming, economic, religious, worship, and political, platforms or frameworks unnecessary. As with many of the founding Quakers (not all), we do not participate in the establishment or setting aside of outward religious institutions and instrumentalities and practices because those outward forms are not relevant to our experience which is established Itself in itself. We participate in the activity of worship and re-creating in every moment of our lives. Our conscious is not anchored in and our conscience is not informed by outward gaming or worshipping frameworks. In the same way,  we do not set aside or participate holy-days because a conscious anchored in and a conscious informed in the activity of re-creating or worshipping itself in itself knows a life that is holy in all moments and circumstances. It is just not necessary to set aside outward special days and times of holiness or celebration; even as we acknowledge the "integrity" of those outward holy-days for many people even when those holy-days and the language of those holy-days are not metaphoric in any way.

Thanks you for your words.

Keith

At 6:03pm on 12th mo. 10, 2015, Forrest Curo said…

Yeah, it's a little backasswards how this works -- but then we don't end up with all the liter in the same place. I really agree about The Exam; I get Spot Quizzes instead. (I don't always like the way these turn out!)

I did a poem once abt:

'Practice the corpse pose;it will be on The Exam'

but then so are sunsets.

The trouble with "How effective were you as an activist?" is that Jesus would have flunked that one. So maybe it's not such a good question. At best (unless you died of being thumped by a cop) you'd still face a further question: "Yes, but what have you done for Me lately?"

At 5:09pm on 12th mo. 10, 2015, Forrest Curo said…

I'm liking your last rant over on Keith's piece (where it really is slightly off-topic, alas!)

But (begging the question of whether there is such a thing) I really can't see "How effective were you as an activist?" being among the questions on The Exam.

 
 
 

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Kirby Urner posted a discussion

Love Thyself as Thine Enemy

Switched around this way, this Christian enjoinder makes plenty of sense.A true enemy deserves…See More
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Kirby Urner commented on Chaplain Stogumber's blog post 'Rambling: Quaker or Anabaptist? A matter of class?'
"I enjoy the perspective of Quakerism as business friendly, as clearly, based on its jargon,…"
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