Kirby Urner
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  • Portland, OR
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Kirby Urner's Discussions

Memo on Facebook (RSoF page)

Started 8 hours ago 0 Replies

I understand AFSC's support of BDS. However Quakers are super interested in the issue of forced conscription and the right of conscientious objection. A super logical alliance would be with orthodox…Continue

Theological Terms

Started 4th month 2 0 Replies

Portland is very Asian.  Some of the terms used in theology might need fine tuning if we're using them to classify beliefs.If I believe in reincarnation, that's life after death right?  This life is…Continue

No Quakers, Only Quakerism

Started this discussion. Last reply by Kirby Urner 3rd month 29. 5 Replies

I like Karen Armstrong's observation that Protestants especially are into "head beliefs". They believe a lot hinges on all that monkey chatter in their brains, about whether "God exists" or not, and…Continue

Love Thyself as Thine Enemy

Started 1st month 18 0 Replies

Switched around this way, this Christian enjoinder makes plenty of sense.A true enemy deserves respect and admiration. The price for not accepting oneself as a worthy foe, is likely defeat.  But then…Continue

 

Kirby Urner's Page

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Kirby Urner posted a discussion

Memo on Facebook (RSoF page)

I understand AFSC's support of BDS. However Quakers are super interested in the issue of forced conscription and the right of conscientious objection. A super logical alliance would be with orthodox Jews who do not wish to serve in the IDF on religious grounds.Does AFSC work with this group much? If not, why not? Might be because of divergent views on LGBTQ but then no one says alliances imply 100% agreement on all issues.Perhaps AFSC has approached True Torah Jews and been rebuffed? I suppose…See More
8 hours ago
Keith Saylor liked Kirby Urner's blog post Memo re Syria
13 hours ago
Kirby Urner posted a blog post

Memo re Syria

[memo to a listserv for faculty and Peace Corps vets, a couple typos fixed, I think I'll add this to Medium]I was pleased to see the militaries colluding to put on a fun show for the vicious masses, eager for fireworks. TV voyeurs love a great spectacle. Many are whining they want more. They want to "rubbleize" Damascus. "Please please please give us more violence".Choosing to attack supposed "chemical weapons facilities" was on paper reckless (if any toxic gases were really present), but clips…See More
yesterday
Forrest Curo commented on Kirby Urner's blog post 'Theological Murmurings'
"Religion minus judgementalism is The Kingdom, ie the Government of God. I'm still flailing to grasp at what that's about. I had a dream a couple nights back in response to asking about it -- and that dream was about me, about more love…"
4th month 3
Kirby Urner posted a discussion

Theological Terms

Portland is very Asian.  Some of the terms used in theology might need fine tuning if we're using them to classify beliefs.If I believe in reincarnation, that's life after death right?  This life is the after life, i.e. the next life after the last one.If I believe in intelligent yet invisible beings, call them demons or metaphysical processes, but not in any single "one" at the top of the food chain, governing the whole show (a monarchy), does that make me an atheist?A lot of Asian belief…See More
4th month 2
Kirby Urner posted a blog post

Theological Murmurings

One might think "mumbling" describes it better, as more incoherent than not, however "murmuring" sounds better.  Today is Easter, and April Fools.I'm meditating on the foolishness of Man, quite appropriately. I'm going back to Genesis 2-3 when they apparently had the choice of a second tree's fruit, the fruit of Eternal Life.Given a choice between Eternal Life and this other thing God said no about, and that had a snake on it, a talking one, Man chose this other thing. How smart was that?  One…See More
4th month 2
Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'No Quakers, Only Quakerism'
"As NPYM info clerk (informal name), my fantasy around membership was to create this new form of practice we might call "being a totally out Quaker" as in "out of the closet" enough to be willing to pop up on strangers'…"
3rd month 29
Howard Brod replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'No Quakers, Only Quakerism'
"My meeting has a similar attitude to your meeting in regard to formal "recorded" membership for the reasons you mention.  It's all about BEING in the Spirit and not "practicing" human constructs as though being at…"
3rd month 27
Melinda Grube liked Kirby Urner's discussion No Quakers, Only Quakerism
3rd month 21
Michael liked Kirby Urner's discussion No Quakers, Only Quakerism
3rd month 20
Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'No Quakers, Only Quakerism'
"Deborah writes, in conclusion: At the core of the practice of Quakerism is the experience, and the exercise (the work) of friendship with others. Quakerism is not all "about me" and my God in some private relationship, but about me in my…"
3rd month 15
Forrest Curo replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'No Quakers, Only Quakerism'
"Are we talking about that exclusive club of friends of Christ Jesus, who hangs out with all manner of low-lifes & uppity women?"
3rd month 14
David McKay replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'No Quakers, Only Quakerism'
"I would commend to you a lovely but also quite astute pamphlet called "Meeting" by Deborah Haight where she begins with the distinction between going to meeting and being a meeting and works out some implications of that while also talking…"
3rd month 14
David McKay liked Kirby Urner's discussion No Quakers, Only Quakerism
3rd month 14
Kirby Urner posted a discussion

No Quakers, Only Quakerism

I like Karen Armstrong's observation that Protestants especially are into "head beliefs". They believe a lot hinges on all that monkey chatter in their brains, about whether "God exists" or not, and like to stand in church, to recite some "credo".  To them, being pious (religious) means "thinking pious thoughts" i.e. Judgement Day is all about finding out if you'd been "right thinking" (naughty or nice in the God = Santa Claus model).To others, there's only practice, practice, practice.  You…See More
3rd month 14
Kirby Urner replied to Karl Vonderheyde's discussion '...plain?'
"Good point that "blending in" was not the point, as Quakers were habituated to make a nuisance of themselves and made waves in many dimensions.  I stand corrected."
3rd month 9

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Facebook: thekirbster

Autobio: http://wikieducator.org/User:KirbyUrner/Autobio

Member of IT Committee, North Pacific Yearly Meeting
Website/Blog
http://4dsolutions.net
Twitter Page
http://twitter.com/4DsolutionsPDX

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Kirby Urner's Blog

Memo re Syria

Posted on 4th mo. 18, 2018 at 1:00am 0 Comments

[memo to a listserv for faculty and Peace Corps vets, a couple typos fixed, I think I'll add this to Medium]



I was pleased to see the militaries colluding to put on a fun show for the vicious masses, eager for fireworks. TV voyeurs love a great spectacle. Many are whining they want more. They want to "rubbleize" Damascus. "Please please please give us more violence".




Choosing to attack supposed…

Continue

Theological Murmurings

Posted on 4th mo. 2, 2018 at 1:30am 1 Comment

One might think "mumbling" describes it better, as more incoherent than not, however "murmuring" sounds better.  Today is Easter, and April Fools.

I'm meditating on the foolishness of Man, quite appropriately. I'm going back to Genesis 2-3 when they apparently had the choice of a second tree's fruit, the fruit of Eternal Life.

Given a choice between Eternal Life and this other thing God said no about, and that had a snake on it, a talking one, Man chose this other thing. How…

Continue

Religious Studies

Posted on 2nd mo. 25, 2018 at 5:30pm 3 Comments



I've long been aware of this branch in Jewish Orthodoxy and have wondered if the free-from-nations movement (FFNM) would be regarded as offensive to them. Paradox: FFNM encourages each self-respecting nation to fulfill plans for world domination virtually meaning: assume you've won, the world is your… Continue

Jerusalem: World Capital

Posted on 12th mo. 6, 2017 at 11:30pm 1 Comment

As one respectful and grateful to science, and yet a believer in continuing revelation, to me it's clear what a Chosen People we are, as hominid inhabitants of this "Global U" or "universe city" called Earth.  Likewise I see our Promised Land is a spherical body, with a relatively large moon, situated amongst other such spherical bodies, none so much an Eden nor genesis zone.

The theatrics of nation-states, on the other hand, seem increasingly phony to me, nothing serious enough on…

Continue

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At 11:59pm on 3rd mo. 2, 2016, Keith Saylor said…

Hello Kirby,

While I agree with your sentiment to it is not about either/or.

For me, it is an issue of just being honest about the reality. There just are many people, by their own admission and not my characterization, whose conscious is anchored in and whose conscience is informed by outward forms generally speaking. These people make up the majority of people on this earth. There is also a smaller number of people on this earth whose conscious, generally speaking, is anchored in and whose conscience, generally speaking,  is informed by direct and unmediated inherent self-existence or Presence itself in itself without regard to outward practices, institutions, teachers, leaders, theologies, religions, etc. 

The very nature of the former is to break up into various outward "brands," as you say, while the later has no real issue with outward branding because they do not participate in that way of existence. They profess no outward marks, forms, or practices by which they themselves or others may know them as under the pale of direct and unmediated Presence itself in itself. It is the establishing of outward forms that nurture the manifestation of various brands. Those early Quakers, who followed Foxonian innovation, and eventually turned back again to established outward ways, practices, and traditions, nurtured the manifestation of the various brands that now make up the Quakerism of today that is anchored in and informed by outward forms. 

There has been those from the beginnings of the Children of Light, as there are today, who are not  stakeholders in the establishment and perpetuation of any outward religion, practice, tradition, politic, economy, institutions, etc. so that there is no occasion for branding or disunity amongst those gathered into and governed by direct and unmediated Spirit itself in itself.

Anarchy is the lack of governance. The Children of Light whose conscious is anchored in and whose conscience is informed by Presence know the direct and unmediated governance of the same Presence itself in itself. 

Thank you, Keith

At 9:22am on 3rd mo. 2, 2016, Keith Saylor said…

Hello Kirby,

Recently you wrote:

I'm a Wittgenstein student and don't buy that names point to things, even in the simple case. Words are tools and their use defines them, not some mysterious "pointing". "Language on the one hand, real object on the other" -- that's a simplification that only gets one entangled in confusions.

Mathematics is not metaphorical if it's not trying to be "about" anything beyond itself. Chess, the game, is not really a "metaphor" for a war either, or if it is, it's not a war like we've ever seen. Games have their own integrity. They don't need to be "metaphoric".

Note: Santa and Satan differ only by letter arrangement, like Dog and God.

Your words are compelling and I've spent much time with them. I appreciate your observation that "Games have their own integrity" and I agree. In the same way that equations, theologies, institutions, languages, etc. have their own integrity. The physical world has its own integrity. Ecosystems have their own integrity. Economies have their own integrity. Church frameworks have their own integrity. Idols or icons and similitudes have their own integrity. An idol certainly does not need to point to anything beyond itself and often does not. It has its own integrity. This is the reality of things for many people on this earth and I affirm the truth of it.

With that said, there are others on this earth who re-create (for example, participate in gaming or worship) in the very activity of living itself so that we do not engage in setting aside outward frameworks within which we go about re-creating or worshipping for that matter. While we acknowledge the existence of outward gaming and worship frameworks or platforms, we may not participate in them because we live in the activity of re-creating or worshipping itself in itself. Living in the activity of re-creating or worshipping in all moments and circumstance in daily life makes entering into an outwardly established gaming, economic, religious, worship, and political, platforms or frameworks unnecessary. As with many of the founding Quakers (not all), we do not participate in the establishment or setting aside of outward religious institutions and instrumentalities and practices because those outward forms are not relevant to our experience which is established Itself in itself. We participate in the activity of worship and re-creating in every moment of our lives. Our conscious is not anchored in and our conscience is not informed by outward gaming or worshipping frameworks. In the same way,  we do not set aside or participate holy-days because a conscious anchored in and a conscious informed in the activity of re-creating or worshipping itself in itself knows a life that is holy in all moments and circumstances. It is just not necessary to set aside outward special days and times of holiness or celebration; even as we acknowledge the "integrity" of those outward holy-days for many people even when those holy-days and the language of those holy-days are not metaphoric in any way.

Thanks you for your words.

Keith

At 6:03pm on 12th mo. 10, 2015, Forrest Curo said…

Yeah, it's a little backasswards how this works -- but then we don't end up with all the liter in the same place. I really agree about The Exam; I get Spot Quizzes instead. (I don't always like the way these turn out!)

I did a poem once abt:

'Practice the corpse pose;it will be on The Exam'

but then so are sunsets.

The trouble with "How effective were you as an activist?" is that Jesus would have flunked that one. So maybe it's not such a good question. At best (unless you died of being thumped by a cop) you'd still face a further question: "Yes, but what have you done for Me lately?"

At 5:09pm on 12th mo. 10, 2015, Forrest Curo said…

I'm liking your last rant over on Keith's piece (where it really is slightly off-topic, alas!)

But (begging the question of whether there is such a thing) I really can't see "How effective were you as an activist?" being among the questions on The Exam.

 
 
 

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Latest Activity

Kirby Urner posted a discussion

Memo on Facebook (RSoF page)

I understand AFSC's support of BDS. However Quakers are super interested in the issue of forced…See More
8 hours ago
Keith Saylor liked Kirby Urner's blog post Memo re Syria
13 hours ago
David Timothy Holdsworth posted a blog post

Spurgeon Against Carnal Warfare

"And I do firmly hold, that the slaughter of men, that bayonets, and swords, and guns, have never…See More
yesterday
Kirby Urner posted a blog post

Memo re Syria

[memo to a listserv for faculty and Peace Corps vets, a couple typos fixed, I think I'll add this…See More
yesterday
David Timothy Holdsworth posted a blog post

Pentecostals and Charismatics Against War

“From the very beginning, the movement has been characterized by Quaker principles. The laws of the…See More
3rd day (Tue)
Mike Shell posted a blog post
2nd day (Mon)
Patricia Dallmann shared David Timothy Holdsworth's blog post on Facebook
2nd day (Mon)
David Timothy Holdsworth posted blog posts
2nd day (Mon)

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