Kirby Urner
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  • Portland, OR
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Kirby Urner's Discussions

Talk about Talking Heads (E.M. Jones)

Started this discussion. Last reply by Kirby Urner 11th month 2. 2 Replies

Wow Dr. E. Michael Jones, been watching interviews of the guy on U2b (Youtube).Maybe no one has heard of the guy or is interested in discussion.  No Karen Armstrong.…Continue

What is Primitive Christianity?

Started this discussion. Last reply by Kirby Urner 10th month 30. 1 Reply

I gather from studying the thinking of others at this website, that we're encouraged to share our vision of Quakerism going forward, and in particular to address the topic of a Quaker revival.  What…Continue

Quakerism 2020 in some Neck of the Woods

Started 8th month 12 0 Replies

I'm using science fiction to forecast what a Meeting might come to, by way of Faith & Practice.The regional F&P is open source on Github however our meeting maintains a fork, its…Continue

Regarding Pronouns

Started this discussion. Last reply by Kirby Urner 5th month 8. 3 Replies

I pay a lot of attention to pronoun use. People often say "our nuclear weapons" and/or "what we did in Vietnam". I don't have any nuclear weapons, nor do my friends.When I spend lots of time/energy…Continue

 

Kirby Urner's Page

Latest Activity

Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Chrome Tries to Block Access'
"FireFox did not hassle me in any way.  I'm going to close this issue and probably delete this discussion shortly if no one else is having a problem."
7th day (Sat)
Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Talk about Talking Heads (E.M. Jones)'
"Howdy Keith -- Thanks for wading in. I'm not really expecting any surge in Friends wanting to immerse themselves in Catholic arcana. I imagine Dr. Jones has a nostalgic flavor for some connoisseurs, that smokey pre Vatican II elixir, before…"
11th month 2
Keith Saylor replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Talk about Talking Heads (E.M. Jones)'
"I write this as one from a different way who does not wish to step on the intent of your post to discuss this person. I have met with people who share the same notions as I have met many people who do not share them. However, many of them on each…"
11th month 2
Kirby Urner posted a discussion

Talk about Talking Heads (E.M. Jones)

Wow Dr. E. Michael Jones, been watching interviews of the guy on U2b (Youtube).Maybe no one has heard of the guy or is interested in discussion.  No Karen Armstrong.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Michael_JonesMe on Facebook:…See More
10th month 31
Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'What is Primitive Christianity?'
"https://medium.com/@kirbyurner/a-quaker-village-qv-d35dfa2941f2I somewhat rambling saunter through the Quaker Village meme.  Connects back here."
10th month 30
Kirby Urner replied to Howard Brod's discussion 'The Earliest Quakers and liberal Quakerism' in the group Liberal Quakers
"Greetings Keith -- Thanks for filling in some more blanks regarding your freedom from outwardness, and how your work is to serve as a guidepost for those similarly emerging from an outward forms dominated mindset, perhaps with a history of being…"
10th month 28
Kirby Urner replied to Howard Brod's discussion 'The Earliest Quakers and liberal Quakerism' in the group Liberal Quakers
"Hi Keith -- Howard may have diagnosed our divergence in vocabulary with some precision, earlier in this discussion, when he wrote: That may indeed be the nub of the issue: to me "institution-building" is coterminal with "implementing…"
10th month 27
Kirby Urner replied to Howard Brod's discussion 'The Earliest Quakers and liberal Quakerism' in the group Liberal Quakers
"Greetings Keith -- I hope you're not finding our back-and-forth too onerous. I think we're contributing. I'll respond in two parts.  First, about sin = mental illness: My belief is humanity made great strides when medical science…"
10th month 25
Kirby Urner replied to Howard Brod's discussion 'The Earliest Quakers and liberal Quakerism' in the group Liberal Quakers
"Hi Howard -- Yes, I'm likely confused regarding your meaning for "outward form" as earlier you wrote: So then of course they're just manifestations of human egos. But then I think human egos are meant to be controlled. …"
10th month 24
Kirby Urner replied to Howard Brod's discussion 'The Earliest Quakers and liberal Quakerism' in the group Liberal Quakers
"Hi Keith -- Apologies if my use of "spiritual catatonia" seemed a dig at your philosophy. My segue was from "Nuthouse Earth" wherein all of us suffer, without exception, from the wages of sin. Even if a child is born beautifully…"
10th month 24
Kirby Urner replied to Howard Brod's discussion 'The Earliest Quakers and liberal Quakerism' in the group Liberal Quakers
"Hi Howard -- I was sketching two extremes on a spectrum. It makes sense to me that the most fragile and spiritually insecure would seek solace in a more intimate and informal setting, such as you've described, but I did not mean to characterize…"
10th month 24
Kirby Urner replied to Howard Brod's discussion 'The Earliest Quakers and liberal Quakerism' in the group Liberal Quakers
"Yes, some early Friends may have found fulfillment in their rebellious heresy and divergence from the Church of England. They were consumed with righteousness and spoke boldly and plainly to their shocked non-Quaker contemporaries, some of whom were…"
10th month 24
Kirby Urner replied to Howard Brod's discussion 'The Earliest Quakers and liberal Quakerism' in the group Liberal Quakers
"Yes indeed, that sounds wonderful, including that "not too much driving" part. :-D I believe the world hungers for model communities, replicable and attractive as lifestyles.  Religious orders have a long history of working to…"
10th month 23
Kirby Urner replied to Howard Brod's discussion 'The Earliest Quakers and liberal Quakerism' in the group Liberal Quakers
"Greetings Howard -- All that sounds idyllic and I am grateful that Quakerism is flexible enough to allow these more informal and easygoing outward forms.  It's not my place to judge, but were I to do so, I'd call it good. However I…"
10th month 23
Kirby Urner posted a discussion

What is Primitive Christianity?

I gather from studying the thinking of others at this website, that we're encouraged to share our vision of Quakerism going forward, and in particular to address the topic of a Quaker revival.  What might that look like?In my view, the practice of Quakerism is ideally a whole lifestyle, with cradle to grave aspects, not unlike Amish in this regard, but minus the prohibitions against using technology.  Perhaps this ideal is unattainable, but it's the focus of my science fiction…See More
10th month 22

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Lots online.
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http://4dsolutions.net
Twitter Page
http://twitter.com/4DsolutionsPDX

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Kirby Urner's Blog

Friendly Infrastructure: Two Exhibits

Posted on 9th mo. 22, 2018 at 10:57pm 3 Comments

[ EXHIBIT 1: Recent posting to npym-it-discuss, a listserv for those in NPYM interesting in yakking about matters IT ]

09/05/2018 (17 days ago)



https://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2018-August/012012.html



This is a link to a publicly archived listserv (intentional spelling, allusion to brand Listserv, which then became a generic, like…
Continue

Regarding the Gospel of Judas (a film documentary)

Posted on 8th mo. 27, 2018 at 5:07pm 0 Comments

In case you don't have time to watch the movie, or can't get your hands on a copy, the National Geographic documentary about the Gospel of Judas is pretty interesting.



Yes, National Geographic was a sponsor of the project, as if it turned out this was an authentic document, then kudos would accrue to the documentary makers.  For sure this whole operation would need to be memorialized using state of the art film techniques.  One doesn't mess…
Continue

Portland-Shiraz Sister Cities Project

Posted on 7th mo. 7, 2018 at 11:30pm 2 Comments

The Unitarians are more at the forefront than Friends on this initiative, however we had a number of Quakers at the Iran Forum where this proposal was floated, receiving much interest and applause. I'll give a link in the comments to my journal entry on our meeting.  Portland is already sister cities with a lot of others, like Chicago is, including Sapporo (Japan) and Ashkelon (Israel).

Given my connections to higher education, I'm especially keen to share Silicon Forest curriculum…

Continue

Of Plain Speech & Post-nationalism

Posted on 5th mo. 14, 2018 at 3:00pm 1 Comment

Stetson + C6XTY

I might bring this up informally with Oversight Committee, like I did with my "Gun Club" Stetson.  "Is this OK?"



By "this" I mean my tendency to refer to nations in the past tense, as a matter of plain…
Continue

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At 11:59pm on 3rd mo. 2, 2016, Keith Saylor said…

Hello Kirby,

While I agree with your sentiment to it is not about either/or.

For me, it is an issue of just being honest about the reality. There just are many people, by their own admission and not my characterization, whose conscious is anchored in and whose conscience is informed by outward forms generally speaking. These people make up the majority of people on this earth. There is also a smaller number of people on this earth whose conscious, generally speaking, is anchored in and whose conscience, generally speaking,  is informed by direct and unmediated inherent self-existence or Presence itself in itself without regard to outward practices, institutions, teachers, leaders, theologies, religions, etc. 

The very nature of the former is to break up into various outward "brands," as you say, while the later has no real issue with outward branding because they do not participate in that way of existence. They profess no outward marks, forms, or practices by which they themselves or others may know them as under the pale of direct and unmediated Presence itself in itself. It is the establishing of outward forms that nurture the manifestation of various brands. Those early Quakers, who followed Foxonian innovation, and eventually turned back again to established outward ways, practices, and traditions, nurtured the manifestation of the various brands that now make up the Quakerism of today that is anchored in and informed by outward forms. 

There has been those from the beginnings of the Children of Light, as there are today, who are not  stakeholders in the establishment and perpetuation of any outward religion, practice, tradition, politic, economy, institutions, etc. so that there is no occasion for branding or disunity amongst those gathered into and governed by direct and unmediated Spirit itself in itself.

Anarchy is the lack of governance. The Children of Light whose conscious is anchored in and whose conscience is informed by Presence know the direct and unmediated governance of the same Presence itself in itself. 

Thank you, Keith

At 9:22am on 3rd mo. 2, 2016, Keith Saylor said…

Hello Kirby,

Recently you wrote:

I'm a Wittgenstein student and don't buy that names point to things, even in the simple case. Words are tools and their use defines them, not some mysterious "pointing". "Language on the one hand, real object on the other" -- that's a simplification that only gets one entangled in confusions.

Mathematics is not metaphorical if it's not trying to be "about" anything beyond itself. Chess, the game, is not really a "metaphor" for a war either, or if it is, it's not a war like we've ever seen. Games have their own integrity. They don't need to be "metaphoric".

Note: Santa and Satan differ only by letter arrangement, like Dog and God.

Your words are compelling and I've spent much time with them. I appreciate your observation that "Games have their own integrity" and I agree. In the same way that equations, theologies, institutions, languages, etc. have their own integrity. The physical world has its own integrity. Ecosystems have their own integrity. Economies have their own integrity. Church frameworks have their own integrity. Idols or icons and similitudes have their own integrity. An idol certainly does not need to point to anything beyond itself and often does not. It has its own integrity. This is the reality of things for many people on this earth and I affirm the truth of it.

With that said, there are others on this earth who re-create (for example, participate in gaming or worship) in the very activity of living itself so that we do not engage in setting aside outward frameworks within which we go about re-creating or worshipping for that matter. While we acknowledge the existence of outward gaming and worship frameworks or platforms, we may not participate in them because we live in the activity of re-creating or worshipping itself in itself. Living in the activity of re-creating or worshipping in all moments and circumstance in daily life makes entering into an outwardly established gaming, economic, religious, worship, and political, platforms or frameworks unnecessary. As with many of the founding Quakers (not all), we do not participate in the establishment or setting aside of outward religious institutions and instrumentalities and practices because those outward forms are not relevant to our experience which is established Itself in itself. We participate in the activity of worship and re-creating in every moment of our lives. Our conscious is not anchored in and our conscience is not informed by outward gaming or worshipping frameworks. In the same way,  we do not set aside or participate holy-days because a conscious anchored in and a conscious informed in the activity of re-creating or worshipping itself in itself knows a life that is holy in all moments and circumstances. It is just not necessary to set aside outward special days and times of holiness or celebration; even as we acknowledge the "integrity" of those outward holy-days for many people even when those holy-days and the language of those holy-days are not metaphoric in any way.

Thanks you for your words.

Keith

At 6:03pm on 12th mo. 10, 2015, Forrest Curo said…

Yeah, it's a little backasswards how this works -- but then we don't end up with all the liter in the same place. I really agree about The Exam; I get Spot Quizzes instead. (I don't always like the way these turn out!)

I did a poem once abt:

'Practice the corpse pose;it will be on The Exam'

but then so are sunsets.

The trouble with "How effective were you as an activist?" is that Jesus would have flunked that one. So maybe it's not such a good question. At best (unless you died of being thumped by a cop) you'd still face a further question: "Yes, but what have you done for Me lately?"

At 5:09pm on 12th mo. 10, 2015, Forrest Curo said…

I'm liking your last rant over on Keith's piece (where it really is slightly off-topic, alas!)

But (begging the question of whether there is such a thing) I really can't see "How effective were you as an activist?" being among the questions on The Exam.

 
 
 

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Latest Activity

Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Chrome Tries to Block Access'
"FireFox did not hassle me in any way.  I'm going to close this issue and probably delete…"
7th day (Sat)
Kimberly Haas posted an event

Call for Presentations at Philadelphia, PA

11th mo. 6, 2018 at 6pm to 1st mo. 1, 2019 at 7pm
Friends Association for Higher Education invites proposals for presentations for our June 2019…See More
11th month 6
Mike Shell posted a blog post
11th month 4
Patricia Dallmann posted a blog post

New essay at Abiding Quaker: His Seed Remaineth

The following is an excerpt from a new post at…See More
11th month 3
Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Talk about Talking Heads (E.M. Jones)'
"Howdy Keith -- Thanks for wading in. I'm not really expecting any surge in Friends wanting to…"
11th month 2
Keith Saylor replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Talk about Talking Heads (E.M. Jones)'
"I write this as one from a different way who does not wish to step on the intent of your post to…"
11th month 2
Kirby Urner posted a discussion

Talk about Talking Heads (E.M. Jones)

Wow Dr. E. Michael Jones, been watching interviews of the guy on U2b (Youtube).Maybe no one has…See More
10th month 31

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