Kirby Urner
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  • Portland, OR
  • United States
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Kirby Urner's Friends

  • Hye Sung Francis Gehring
  • ProNica
  • William F Rushby
  • Forrest Curo

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Kirby Urner's Discussions

Friends Discussing Racism

Started on 7th day (Sat) 0 Replies

[ excerpt from one of Multnomah's several listservs, this one a study group that includes film-watching ]Really interesting documentary about a black man who tries to befriend members of the Klan and…Continue

Quaker Esoterica

Started 2nd month 9 0 Replies

Today I get to teach more Martian Math in a local Catholic school. That's something I pioneered thanks to Saturday Academy and Reed College, and am likewise branding as "esoteric Quaker" (long story,…Continue

My Role Model Quakers

Started 2nd month 9 0 Replies

My role model Quakers are the late 1700s industrialists who hoped the industrial age would give birth to benign forms of "company town" capitalism which honored workers and extended families.…Continue

Quakerism as "Knowing Experimentally"

Started this discussion. Last reply by Kirby Urner 1st month 11. 2 Replies

Given the new global geek culture based on "cloning, forking and merging" (software projects), I'm predicting that future Quaker forking may be a lot smoother (lots less gnashing of teeth). We won't…Continue

 

Kirby Urner's Page

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Kirby Urner posted a discussion

Friends Discussing Racism

[ excerpt from one of Multnomah's several listservs, this one a study group that includes film-watching ]Really interesting documentary about a black man who tries to befriend members of the Klan and convince them to quit. Lew and I saw it on PBS the other night and we were hoping other folks would watch it so we can talk about it. Check it out…See More
7th day (Sat)
Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Do Quakers Believe in Continuing Revelation?'
"Thanks for you comments Tom. Yes, it's lazy to not read the Bible, if you're able to read, lazy not to read period, if it's a skill you've invested time in. The Bible is one of the great "switchboards" of our time, a…"
1st month 17
Tom Smith replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Do Quakers Believe in Continuing Revelation?'
"I do not see an "economy of laziness" by "professional Bible readers" in a broad sense. I believe ML King Jr. was in many ways a "professional Bible reader" and most "early" Friends were, if not…"
1st month 17
Kirby Urner posted a blog post

War Studies

That famous folk song that goes "ain't gonna study war no more" seems clearly in the back of the mind of our writer, Friend Wolf Mendl, as he opens with a defense: "Why would a Quaker, a subclass of Pacifist, study and/or play war games?"  Obviously, in order to end it (outward war), in favor of world game instead, he says in translation to 2017-speak. Lets remember George Fox was looked…See More
1st month 16
Kirby Urner commented on James C Schultz's blog post 'Revelation vs. Opionion'
"I see Quakerism itself as a bold experiment in some design *other than* all getting behind a pastor or father figure, a leader, and hoping he's a man of true faith. Such designs, closer to monarchy and feudalism are also more into scapegoating,…"
1st month 13
Kirby Urner commented on James C Schultz's blog post 'Revelation vs. Opionion'
"Right. I think what muddies the waters when differentiating "faith" from "hearsay" or "opinion" is precisely the citing of authorities e.g. George Fox or the Bible, as to what "faith" really is. When one cites…"
1st month 13
Kirby Urner commented on James C Schultz's blog post 'Revelation vs. Opionion'
"Agreed that "smoothing over differences" is problematic. Some of my friends not following here might prefer "intuition" to "faith" as to them "faith" sounds like signing one's name to a list of tenets, a…"
1st month 12
Kirby Urner commented on James C Schultz's blog post 'Revelation vs. Opionion'
"Revelations gives us "ways forward". Quakers are always saying "as the way opens" and wait for it to do so. That's "expectant waiting" a known practice, and what's awaited is what's revealed, whatever…"
1st month 12
Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Do Quakers Believe in Continuing Revelation?'
"Good question William, worthy of it's own thread. If I may suggest a reading to get the ball rolling: https://michaelhyatt.com/the-difference-between-a-sin-and-a-mistake.html Jesus says our sins are forgiven as we're hellbent on making…"
1st month 12
Kirby Urner commented on James C Schultz's blog post 'Revelation vs. Opionion'
"I would suggest "study" and "faith" have no universal meaning apart from the speaker or writer in question, but we manage to smooth over these differences in everyday parlance. What I've learned about Augie, maybe wrong, is…"
1st month 12
William F Rushby replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Do Quakers Believe in Continuing Revelation?'
"Jesus says our sins are forgiven as we're hellbent on making mistakes. Trial and error: that's how we learn."  Are sins "mistakes," or deliberate actions contrary to God's will?"
1st month 12
Kirby Urner commented on James C Schultz's blog post 'Revelation vs. Opionion'
"I don't think of "study" and "faith" as necessarily opposed activities, per St. Augustine's doctrine of the inner teacher. http://www.augnet.org/?ipageid=1366 PS: check title for typo."
1st month 12
Kirby Urner posted a photo
1st month 12
Kirby Urner updated their profile
1st month 12
Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Do Quakers Believe in Continuing Revelation?'
"Among many other results of on-line searching, I found this survey giving responses to this question by several Friends: http://jewelsofquakerism.org/survey-questions/continuing-revelation/ A simple answer seems clear: Q: Do Quakers believe in…"
1st month 12
James C Schultz replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Do Quakers Believe in Continuing Revelation?'
"Continuing revelation infers an initial revelation.  Too many rely on someone else's revelation as their starting point and then extrapolate from there.  Result?  Less love, poorer relationships, more reasons why the beatitudes…"
1st month 11

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About Me
Facebook: thekirbster

Autobio: http://wikieducator.org/User:KirbyUrner/Autobio

Member of IT Committee, North Pacific Yearly Meeting
Website/Blog
http://4dsolutions.net
Twitter Page
http://twitter.com/4DsolutionsPDX

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Kirby Urner's Blog

On Racism Again

Posted on 2nd mo. 3, 2017 at 6:03pm 0 Comments

:: stand-up philosophy by Wes Cecil ::


What I wrote on Facebook:

Really enjoyed this, because he's doing philosophy and standup comedy at the same time. Gets my…
Continue

War Studies

Posted on 1st mo. 16, 2017 at 3:16pm 0 Comments

DSCF2938


That famous folk song that goes "ain't gonna study war no more" seems clearly in the back of the mind of our writer, Friend Wolf Mendl, as he opens with a defense: "Why would a Quaker, a subclass of Pacifist, study and/or play war games?"  Obviously, in order to end…
Continue

13th (movie review)

Posted on 1st mo. 8, 2017 at 1:30pm 2 Comments

Friends gathered at the Stark Street meetinghouse for this public-invited showing of 13th, a widely distributed, award-winning documentary about the ongoing cultural and civil war in North America.

Although Lincoln declared the slaves free, an opening shot in his war to preserve the Union, the South was not on board with providing them with full human rights overnight.  Women couldn't vote yet either.  A system of apartheid…

Continue

True Stories

Posted on 11th mo. 7, 2016 at 11:20am 0 Comments



The Multnomah Meeting's Peace & Social Concerns Committee arranged for this event.



We had a potluck downstairs, then adjourned to the upstairs worship room for singing and stories told by Carol Urner, my mom, about her life.…

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Comment Wall (4 comments)

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At 11:59pm on 3rd mo. 2, 2016, Keith Saylor said…

Hello Kirby,

While I agree with your sentiment to it is not about either/or.

For me, it is an issue of just being honest about the reality. There just are many people, by their own admission and not my characterization, whose conscious is anchored in and whose conscience is informed by outward forms generally speaking. These people make up the majority of people on this earth. There is also a smaller number of people on this earth whose conscious, generally speaking, is anchored in and whose conscience, generally speaking,  is informed by direct and unmediated inherent self-existence or Presence itself in itself without regard to outward practices, institutions, teachers, leaders, theologies, religions, etc. 

The very nature of the former is to break up into various outward "brands," as you say, while the later has no real issue with outward branding because they do not participate in that way of existence. They profess no outward marks, forms, or practices by which they themselves or others may know them as under the pale of direct and unmediated Presence itself in itself. It is the establishing of outward forms that nurture the manifestation of various brands. Those early Quakers, who followed Foxonian innovation, and eventually turned back again to established outward ways, practices, and traditions, nurtured the manifestation of the various brands that now make up the Quakerism of today that is anchored in and informed by outward forms. 

There has been those from the beginnings of the Children of Light, as there are today, who are not  stakeholders in the establishment and perpetuation of any outward religion, practice, tradition, politic, economy, institutions, etc. so that there is no occasion for branding or disunity amongst those gathered into and governed by direct and unmediated Spirit itself in itself.

Anarchy is the lack of governance. The Children of Light whose conscious is anchored in and whose conscience is informed by Presence know the direct and unmediated governance of the same Presence itself in itself. 

Thank you, Keith

At 9:22am on 3rd mo. 2, 2016, Keith Saylor said…

Hello Kirby,

Recently you wrote:

I'm a Wittgenstein student and don't buy that names point to things, even in the simple case. Words are tools and their use defines them, not some mysterious "pointing". "Language on the one hand, real object on the other" -- that's a simplification that only gets one entangled in confusions.

Mathematics is not metaphorical if it's not trying to be "about" anything beyond itself. Chess, the game, is not really a "metaphor" for a war either, or if it is, it's not a war like we've ever seen. Games have their own integrity. They don't need to be "metaphoric".

Note: Santa and Satan differ only by letter arrangement, like Dog and God.

Your words are compelling and I've spent much time with them. I appreciate your observation that "Games have their own integrity" and I agree. In the same way that equations, theologies, institutions, languages, etc. have their own integrity. The physical world has its own integrity. Ecosystems have their own integrity. Economies have their own integrity. Church frameworks have their own integrity. Idols or icons and similitudes have their own integrity. An idol certainly does not need to point to anything beyond itself and often does not. It has its own integrity. This is the reality of things for many people on this earth and I affirm the truth of it.

With that said, there are others on this earth who re-create (for example, participate in gaming or worship) in the very activity of living itself so that we do not engage in setting aside outward frameworks within which we go about re-creating or worshipping for that matter. While we acknowledge the existence of outward gaming and worship frameworks or platforms, we may not participate in them because we live in the activity of re-creating or worshipping itself in itself. Living in the activity of re-creating or worshipping in all moments and circumstance in daily life makes entering into an outwardly established gaming, economic, religious, worship, and political, platforms or frameworks unnecessary. As with many of the founding Quakers (not all), we do not participate in the establishment or setting aside of outward religious institutions and instrumentalities and practices because those outward forms are not relevant to our experience which is established Itself in itself. We participate in the activity of worship and re-creating in every moment of our lives. Our conscious is not anchored in and our conscience is not informed by outward gaming or worshipping frameworks. In the same way,  we do not set aside or participate holy-days because a conscious anchored in and a conscious informed in the activity of re-creating or worshipping itself in itself knows a life that is holy in all moments and circumstances. It is just not necessary to set aside outward special days and times of holiness or celebration; even as we acknowledge the "integrity" of those outward holy-days for many people even when those holy-days and the language of those holy-days are not metaphoric in any way.

Thanks you for your words.

Keith

At 6:03pm on 12th mo. 10, 2015, Forrest Curo said…

Yeah, it's a little backasswards how this works -- but then we don't end up with all the liter in the same place. I really agree about The Exam; I get Spot Quizzes instead. (I don't always like the way these turn out!)

I did a poem once abt:

'Practice the corpse pose;it will be on The Exam'

but then so are sunsets.

The trouble with "How effective were you as an activist?" is that Jesus would have flunked that one. So maybe it's not such a good question. At best (unless you died of being thumped by a cop) you'd still face a further question: "Yes, but what have you done for Me lately?"

At 5:09pm on 12th mo. 10, 2015, Forrest Curo said…

I'm liking your last rant over on Keith's piece (where it really is slightly off-topic, alas!)

But (begging the question of whether there is such a thing) I really can't see "How effective were you as an activist?" being among the questions on The Exam.

 
 
 

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