Forrest Curo
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Forrest Curo's Discussions

Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?

Started this discussion. Last reply by William F Rushby 23 hours ago. 14 Replies

The Trouble With Quaker Gossip

Started this discussion. Last reply by Forrest Curo 10th month 1, 2019. 4 Replies

 

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Latest Activity

William F Rushby replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Forrest: You have packed some heavy judgments into two short paragraphs, with no or very meager explanation.  Would you care to explain for this dim wit what you are trying to say?  "
23 hours ago
Forrest Curo replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Perhaps, then, lack of "faith" (as people typically misconceive it) is less of a barrier to God than self-righteousness and habitual disrespect for what we imagine, rightly or wrongly, to be what people of another religious faction…"
yesterday
William F Rushby replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"When God takes the initiative, even the recalcitrant can be converted.  With God, all things are possible."
yesterday
Forrest Curo replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Um, where were we? Thanks, however, for that last example of how not to read scripture. If it were literally true, no atheist would have found God seeking him."
yesterday
William F Rushby replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"I don't really have a sophisticated definition of "nontheist" to offer.  I would regard "nontheist" and "unbeliever" as synonymous terms, I guess."
yesterday
Keith Saylor replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Hello William, Thank you for that important correction. The specific quote that prompted my original question is: It seems to me that nontheist folks and theists operate in different "ballparks" and there is little point in trying to play…"
yesterday
William F Rushby replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Hello, Keith! "Atheist" is now a naughty word that is not politically correct!   "Nontheist" is the preferred self-descriptor for Friends who don't believe in God.  My plea is "Lord, I believe; help Thou…"
5th day (Thu)
Keith Saylor replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Hello William, When you reflect upon another another person as atheist, how are you using that term? Who you define the meaning you place in the term atheist?"
5th day (Thu)
William F Rushby replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Hey, Forrest, thanks for your willingness to address controversial issues, thereby helping to keep the dialogue alive and, for me, interesting!! You wrote: "In the US [Fox's] later followers broke apart between people who put the emphasis…"
5th day (Thu)
Forrest Curo replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"It takes at least three Quakers to have a schism; and we don't have that in my neighborhood. Whatever who did what to in Philadelphia [When?] is not familiar to me, and doesn't seem related to what you imply you don't understand about…"
4th day (Wed)
William F Rushby replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Forrest Curo wrote: "Further -- that each has had something that the other side lacked, and should talk about that together?" Forrest, what does this mean?  It seems to me that nontheist folks and theists operate in different…"
4th day (Wed)
Keith Saylor replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Awareness of the impulse and self-evident presence of the spirit of Christ in the conscience has led people to testify to the witness of being drawn out of the reflective nature and the need for outward forms like scriptures, meeting houses, or…"
4th day (Wed)
Forrest Curo replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"If everyone were continually consciously aware of the presence of God, we wouldn't need Meetings or scriptures to remind us of the presence and nature of God, nor would there be much point to having this discussion. Why do people in general…"
3rd day (Tue)
Keith Saylor replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Through the power and presence of the spirit of Jesus Christ in my conscience and consciousness, it is discovered to me that the direct experience of the impulse (that is, the awareness of the diminishment, increase, or stasis of the spirit itself…"
3rd day (Tue)
Forrest Curo posted a discussion

Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?

[This is from my reaction to a discussion re George Keith on facebook. Thoughts?]The core implication of the scriptures we have: "God talks to people. Here are examples, illustrative stories, some wild ideas we've gotten that way." The Bible also includes examples of people misunderstanding what God had in mind.This isn't the sort of communication you'd find in a technical manual: 'Figure this out and your gadget will work.' But that's how people try to use scriptures when they think of them as…See More
2nd day (Mon)
Forrest Curo commented on Rainer Möller's blog post 'Quakers unto the Civil War'
"As I understand it, a lot of young men -- being young men -- went off eagerly to join in a battle against evil.  They were, of course, disowned by their Meetings. After finding out what battles-against-evil are all about, and eventually…"
2nd day (Mon)

Profile Information

About Me
Attended one Quaker Meeting ~1961, invited by my best friend in high school. Returned a few times over the decades -> 1991, when I got roped into some pro-homeless activism & felt nostalgic for what I remembered of Friends. Attended regularly awhile, admitted I was a Quaker & therefore had to make it official in 1996. One school year (2002-3) at Pendle Hill, whee! Still knowing God, still being led, still wondering how this all comes out...
Website/Blog
http://sneezingflower.blogspot.com

"You don't do it through intellectual processes. What you do is you telepathically tap in to the one great world religion,
which is only one,
which has no name,
and all of the other religions are merely maps of that."

Stephen Gaskin

Forrest Curo's Blog

The "Presence" of God

Posted on 8th mo. 26, 2018 at 7:01pm 0 Comments

Our experience of the presence of God is our entire experience, including all internal and external senses and our awareness of experiencing.

We can't say that some subset of our experience is the presence of God.

Some aspect of our experience may come to symbolize or represent or indicate the presence of God to a person, but that's an agreed 'codeword' between God and that person: "When I feel ___ then I know You are here & open for business." God is always here and open…

Continue

The Metaphor is the Meaning

Posted on 5th mo. 20, 2017 at 12:33am 0 Comments

You don't do the Bible, or any human being greater honor, or understand them better, by taking them literally.

To take something "metaphorically" doesn't mean that we treat it as just a fluffy literary decoration.

In mathematics there's a term for what a metaphor does: it's called "a mapping." A useful metaphor says that one thing has a similar structure to another thing; they behave alike in analogous circumstances. One of them can be taken as a useful hint toward…

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Truth is a spiritual reality

Posted on 5th mo. 1, 2017 at 3:10pm 4 Comments

The word 'spiritual' gives a lot of people problems, and I'm not going to define it. I'm not even going to claim I understand all that it entails.

But one description that works: "If you can't define something; if you can't reduce it to a combination of some other categories or interactions between them" -- words like say, Truth, Beauty, Love and the like come to mind --

then it very likely is spiritual.

Friends have a lot of trouble with the word 'Truth' anymore. It…

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The Liberal Quaker (Multi)-Dilemma

Posted on 4th mo. 4, 2017 at 10:06am 1 Comment

If a Meeting takes a stand on any significant issue whatsoever it excludes (and temporarily alienates) people who see the matter otherwise.

If a Meeting can not take a stand on matters causing great suffering (and there is always disagreement about these, or someone would have simply corrected them) we seem to fall short of a basic Christian duty.

A possible resolution to this might look like what we did (as I heard it) with the Quaker House in Ulster. Of two warring groups,…

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Truth and vs Love Among Us

Posted on 3rd mo. 26, 2017 at 9:00am 0 Comments

[Thanks to C. Wess Daniels for the nudge!]

People have come to think of a concern for ideas as pathological.

When ideas come to matter more to us than our love for each other, it is pathological.

But people die when the ideas they love and the truths they live under fail to match; bad ideas can kill people as surely as intentional violence.

We have got to resolve our differences; we have truly got to resolve our differences — not smooth them over, not crush them…

Continue

Comment Wall (36 comments)

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At 3:13pm on 12th mo. 7, 2016, Keith Saylor said…
Thank you Forrest. I appreciate you thoughts. I am enjoying reading this person's perspectives. He writes well.
At 6:45pm on 12th mo. 6, 2016, Keith Saylor said…
At 5:52pm on 12th mo. 10, 2015, Kirby Urner said…

Where am I in QuakerQuaker in replying to a Profile comment?  Sheesh.  Um, we may not take the same Exam.  Don't pretend you can see over my shoulder necessarily.  "How effective an Activist were you?" is maybe the only question on my interview with Jesus, who knows?

At 11:25am on 8th mo. 1, 2015, Keith Saylor said…

Hi Forrest. Thank you. I was particularly struck by your words:

"The idea of anyone being, not 'a liar', but simply mistaken, or seeing from another perspective, seems to be largely inconceivable to the religious worthies of that time... or that, at least, was my impression from a small dose of their pamphlet wars [like very slow internet flame wars, yes?]"

I agree. My impression is that those Children of Light who do not establish themselves in outward leadership positions on either side (to impose an outward form on others) manifest a supple spirit guided by the inward light filling their conscious and informing their conscience so that identity rests firmly in Presence itself is not lost or overshadowed by outward forms such as anger, fear, ideology, institution, tradition, etc. 

The Spirit to impose outward forms and institutions on the consciences others is as alive today as when Wilkinson felt it needful to speak against it just 25 years after the Children of Light gathered in England. On the flipside, the Comforter is as alive today as when the Children of Light gathered together around 1650ish in England. The Light is alive in many of us today filling our conscious and guiding our conscience so that we know the original witness of the Children of Light through direct personal experience of Presence within. What a blessing to know in ever present faith that the Light is eternal and shines within ... a beacon ever before our mind and heart directing our journey in all things and all our activities in daily life. And that the darkness of outward forms, institutions, practices, and traditions, can be overcome in the Light itself.

At 9:38am on 8th mo. 1, 2015, Diane Benton said…

Forrest, those are some keen observations.

"Fox was clearly a man of great faith, but where the mission he hoped to perform for God seemed at risk, it seems as if it was hard for him to trust God's purposes to God... That's been a subtle and powerful test of faith for many of us, yes?"

I agree.

At 7:51am on 5th mo. 14, 2015, Mike Shell said…

Hi, Forrest.

Glad to be connected.  I'm at a library conference till Friday.  I'll be in touch after that.

Blessings,
Mike

At 12:34pm on 12th mo. 11, 2014, Paul Klinkman said…

"side of mountain... warmer than overall atmosphere, same height. flexible tube, held by warmth?"

Yes, side of mountain.  The steeper the hill, the less cost for the chimney for a particular height. 

The air inside is warmer than the overall atmosphere.  Making the air inside hotter increases the power output.  The site engineer picks a particular maximum rated temperature, installs insulation suited for that temperature and the control unit enforces that maximum temperature.  Solar hot water control units already do this.

The Manzanares experiment was 600 feet high.  A chimney of 3,000 feet was once proposed. 

A flexible tube puffed out by the warmth is one option.  If so, the turbine would be at the top of the tube.  A flexible tube with air-filled ribs would stay puffed out.  From a minimizing the air pressure standpoint, putting the turbine halfway up the chimney puts only half the stress on the chimney.  The positive  pressure would be highest just below the turbine and the negative pressure would be highest just above the turbine.  The final option is a non-flexible chimney built out of concrete/whatever or a chimney with a solid (dirt?) bottom and flexible tent top.  Yes, tent poles are allowed inside the chimney if they don't cause too much air friction.

On my to do list, put a proposal together for Allete Clean Energy, not too bad an outfit.

At 8:22pm on 2nd mo. 12, 2014, Steve Bradley said…

Hi Forrest!

I have just accepted your "friend" invitation......but I should just let you know that I am a lousy friend -- if Facebook is an indicator.  A loving acquaintance set up a FB site for me about five years ago, and a couple of loving family members periodically install new photos, but I pay scane attention to it.  Not only am I perplexed by the technology, but the zippity-doo-dah nature of FB just depresses me.  Hopefully, however, i will do much better at following the conversation here; that's the plan, anyhow!

At 10:48am on 1st mo. 7, 2014, Jon Watts said…

Thanks for the friend request!  Blessings on your musical endeavors!  :)

At 11:35pm on 8th mo. 5, 2013, Forrest Curo said…

The site is for ongoing commentary. It needs bright and honest people to comment on the Bible verses, people who won't either wallow in uncritical acceptance or automatically dismiss them -- but take an open look at why they're there and why they're the way they are, whether for 'all-too-human' purposes or God's.

Since you'd written about having to fight yourself free from dogmatically-imposed interpretations of the Bible and to see what you could find in it by yourself, I hoped you might still be interested. My wife & I spent a few months attending the weekly Torah study at a good synagogue; and it seems to be a different sort of experience when people can just say what comes to them about a passage. (More people would be [potentially] even better...)

 
 
 

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Latest Activity

William F Rushby replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Forrest: You have packed some heavy judgments into two short paragraphs, with no or very meager…"
23 hours ago
Forrest Curo replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Perhaps, then, lack of "faith" (as people typically misconceive it) is less of a barrier…"
yesterday
William F Rushby replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"When God takes the initiative, even the recalcitrant can be converted.  With God, all things…"
yesterday
Forrest Curo replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Um, where were we? Thanks, however, for that last example of how not to read scripture. If it were…"
yesterday
William F Rushby replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"I don't really have a sophisticated definition of "nontheist" to offer.  I…"
yesterday
Keith Saylor replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Hello William, Thank you for that important correction. The specific quote that prompted my…"
yesterday
William F Rushby replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Hello, Keith! "Atheist" is now a naughty word that is not politically correct! …"
5th day (Thu)
Keith Saylor replied to Forrest Curo's discussion 'Scriptures: Can't do with them; can't do without them?'
"Hello William, When you reflect upon another another person as atheist, how are you using that…"
5th day (Thu)

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