Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Meg Hill-Grigson on 11th mo. 16, 2011 at 5:00pm

I had to chuckle at the timing of your post. I just came from my favorite thrift shop where I saw a beautiful coat, wool and cashmere, needs nothing to make it wearable except the shoulder pads removed, practically new, that is on half price sale for 3.75 and which I need. The only thing against it is that it is in color. It's plaid. It's soft blues and greens with tiny flecks of pink with a lovely hazy effect that looks like the mists of Scotland. It comes with a matching shawl like scarf that would serve as a hood. It's in color. It fits like a dream! It's in color.

 

There is a theme here. It's in color. I have been living in shades of gray, black, charcoal, very dark navy and very dark green for SO long that I am going through a HUGE debate as to whether I should get this coat that makes my heart and my budget sing or whether I should stay dark and plain.

 

I dress in modern clothes, but very simply. I dress in plain clothes - not using pattern except rarely in an occasional flannel shirt in winter with jeans. For work I have a series of simply cut, plain, professional appearing modern dark dresses that I rotate through - very much in the style of the "travel dresses" that you see in catalogs. Because I try to practice simplicity, I buy my clothes from thrift shops or participate in recycling clothes among friends (and Friends). I dress simply because I want my focus to be what I do - not how I look yet I find myself hungry for color. I honestly don't know what to do. I don't see myself running out and changing my wardrobe because of this sudden craving but I'm afraid that if I do get this coat I will lose some of my focus and that I will encourage a (for want of a better term) self-absorption that I want to escape. 

 

I don't have issues with depression that are for me - exacerbated by color or lack of it - mine comes from stress and grief and ironically enough through simplifying my life to eliminate one more thing to think about - clothes and style and going to dark simple colors made it better. I love not thinking about what "works" with what. I love that I can focus outwardly and know that I am professionally attired and that I always look appropriate and yet that I am not remembered for what I wear.  I love rolling out of bed in the morning, grabbing the dress of the day and being ready to go from bed to door (including breakfast coffee and cat duties) in just over 1/2 hour. 

 

Rereading what I just wrote - I think I just talked myself out of the coat. I love the freedom that simplicity brings me. For me - that means not using color - at least at this stage of my life. I think I'm going to stay in the monotone aisle of plain and I'm going to keep looking for a winter coat! Thanks SO much for the thinking this made me do. I really appreciate the re-focusing it triggered! 

Permalink Reply by Caroline Gulian on 11th mo. 16, 2011 at 10:29pm

I like the color gray.  It is very peaceful, kind of like heather or a misty morning.  However it is difficult to find plain dresses in gray.  I cannot make my own, and the websites that sell them usually don't use plain gray.

 

In peace, Caroline

Permalink Reply by Paula Deming on 11th mo. 17, 2011 at 11:32am

I, too, admit to chuckling over your post, Paula. Because just a few months ago, I received instruction on plain dress witness that was completely unexpected. As I was pushing my wardrobe plainer, and I contemplated going gray entirely, I received a vision of the joy of God in uplifted spirits, and was told to go home and "put on your yellow dress."

Well. I didn't put on my yellow dress, because it is sort of a special occasion dress (and thus not in keeping with the simplicity of one wardrobe). But I recognized that I was working out of my reasoning and assumptions, and not listening for that whisper from God. I was feeling a bit of the "dark night" that time I was sitting in meeting. And God was instructing me not to sit in darkness but to abide in the light.

I have come to realize that I received my first leading on dress more than 20 years ago, when I felt a stop while putting in my earrings. I haven't worn pierced earrings since that day, and gave up on a tentative attempt at using clip-ons. I never miss them.

In other words, I believe that plain dress must be a leading. You might experiment, but you must listen.

Yours in the Light, Paula

p.s. Personally, I like your yellow dress very much.

Permalink Reply by Paula McConnell on 11th mo. 17, 2011 at 1:16pm

Meg,

 

You speak to my condition! I felt the leading to go plain in 2005 and abandoned it in 2007 for several reasons - but one was the inner conflict between obeying Spirit and feeling torn between my own have and have nots. I could never really tell where my vanity lied; was it with the worldly idea of beauty (like a gorgeous plaid coat that made me happy?) or my pride of being one of the "peculiar people." I decided to take a step back until it sorted itself out. And it did, some four years later. 

 

You, however; sound much more settled in your testimony, even with your current struggle. Your point about self-absorption was finally what I came to understand. Some print dresses I can put on and not think about for the rest of the day, and others have me looking into mirrors for the rest of the day because they are just so -  pretty. That was my aha! moment. Even though the style and workmanship of the dresses were exactly the same, some had my attention for far too long. I sorted out the dresses that brought about some kind of admiration (from myself or others) and kept the ones that were, well, plain. The other really important aspect of the leading I came to understand is that plain is not ugly. God was not asking me to spend a lifetime of penance in uglydom. When I began to look at Plain as a beautifully simple testimony, the blue and purple pieces fell together. Now when I crave color I look to the natural world or my environment. Perhaps buying the coat is a good idea - to hang it on your wall. It was huge for me when I realized I didn't have to wear everything. (Change the wear to bear and you see how deep this idea went.)

 

I thank thee for the reply!

~paula

Meg Hill-Grigson said:

...

There is a theme here. It's in color. I have been living in shades of gray, black, charcoal, very dark navy and very dark green for SO long that I am going through a HUGE debate as to whether I should get this coat that makes my heart and my budget sing or whether I should stay dark and plain.

...

I don't see myself running out and changing my wardrobe because of this sudden craving but I'm afraid that if I do get this coat I will lose some of my focus and that I will encourage a (for want of a better term) self-absorption that I want to escape.

...

Rereading what I just wrote - I think I just talked myself out of the coat. I love the freedom that simplicity brings me. For me - that means not using color - at least at this stage of my life. I think I'm going to stay in the monotone aisle of plain and I'm going to keep looking for a winter coat! Thanks SO much for the thinking this made me do. I really appreciate the re-focusing it triggered! 

Permalink Reply by Paula McConnell on 11th mo. 17, 2011 at 1:28pm

Caroline,

 

How interesting that you have mentioned the difficulty in finding Quaker plain options! I am discerning the leading to open an online store that sells Quaker specific wear. 

 

I agree that grey can be very beautiful. I have a dress pattern from Friends Patterns that is rather difficult and I plan to construct the dress this winter as an experiment in - you guessed it - grey. :)

 

~paula

Caroline Gulian said:

I like the color gray.  It is very peaceful, kind of like heather or a misty morning.  However it is difficult to find plain dresses in gray.  I cannot make my own, and the websites that sell them usually don't use plain gray.

 

In peace, Caroline

Permalink Reply by Paula McConnell on 11th mo. 17, 2011 at 1:40pm

Indeed, Caroline. Plain dress must be a leading but I still think there some room for individual application, not necessarily style concerns but just practicality. (The reason print dresses and aprons have evolved for me is that my husband's beloved grandmother wore the same. Now that I live in her house and work her farm, it just makes sense, spiritually and otherwise.) I was reading the other day that the Swartzentruber Amish don't allow bras for women, all underwear has to be handmade. After 3 kids, I thought that was just cruel. I may be Plain, but I am still wearing sports bras. 

 

And the yellow dress* lives on! I still wear it. Thanks :)

 

~paula

*the story behind the yellow dress: it was the "test" dress for a pattern I was experimenting with from left-over fabric from another project. I didn't think I would keep it. 

Paula Deming said:

I, too, admit to chuckling over your post, Paula. Because just a few months ago, I received instruction on plain dress witness that was completely unexpected. As I was pushing my wardrobe plainer, and I contemplated going gray entirely, I received a vision of the joy of God in uplifted spirits, and was told to go home and "put on your yellow dress."

Well. I didn't put on my yellow dress, because it is sort of a special occasion dress (and thus not in keeping with the simplicity of one wardrobe). But I recognized that I was working out of my reasoning and assumptions, and not listening for that whisper from God. I was feeling a bit of the "dark night" that time I was sitting in meeting. And God was instructing me not to sit in darkness but to abide in the light.

I have come to realize that I received my first leading on dress more than 20 years ago, when I felt a stop while putting in my earrings. I haven't worn pierced earrings since that day, and gave up on a tentative attempt at using clip-ons. I never miss them.

In other words, I believe that plain dress must be a leading. You might experiment, but you must listen.

Yours in the Light, Paula

p.s. Personally, I like your yellow dress very much.

Permalink Reply by Paula Deming on 11th mo. 17, 2011 at 1:51pm

Well, um <koff> The Swartzentruber Amish women didn't receive this command as a leading, thee knows! ;D

~Paula Deming

Paula McConnell said:

Indeed, Caroline. Plain dress must be a leading but I still think there some room for individual application, not necessarily style concerns but just practicality. (The reason print dresses and aprons have evolved for me is that my husband's beloved grandmother wore the same. Now that I live in her house and work her farm, it just makes sense, spiritually and otherwise.) I was reading the other day that the Swartzentruber Amish don't allow bras for women, all underwear has to be handmade. After 3 kids, I thought that was just cruel. I may be Plain, but I am still wearing sports bras. 

 

And the yellow dress* lives on! I still wear it. Thanks :)

 

~paula

*the story behind the yellow dress: it was the "test" dress for a pattern I was experimenting with from left-over fabric from another project. I didn't think I would keep it. 

Permalink Reply by Paula McConnell on 11th mo. 17, 2011 at 1:55pm

Joseph,

 

Thank thee for the kind reply. Your comments regarding brown are very insightful. Indeed, I started my Plain journey wearing brown but it didn't feel right. I do, however, still have one brown apron that is stained and well-worn, most often in the garden. I certainly blend into the natural world there.

 

I agree also with your comment regarding the color black. My Plain leading was curious and to others, weird and unlikely. I was a fashionista who was really into beauty and black brings back that whole world of fashion and style. And yes, my reading has also confirmed the use of brown among Quakers. I think it is a fine (and I might even add), a righteous choice. 

 

~paula

Joseph Stalnaker said:

I do appreciate your openness and efforts for clarity on this subject.  Dressing plain is definitely something to be done with consideration for all of the many angles it involves.   Certainly colour is a specific aspect to be thought of, and the message its use announces.

Some Old Order plain dressing religious groups forbid the wearing of red, not only for the message of boldness or pride that it exhibits, but also for its connection with blood.  This may sound far fetched but is literally the case in some groups.

Gray has traditionally been considered a somber color, indicative of the wearers sobriety.

I have found that wearing brown, particularly a solid, basic and deep brown, feels very natural and earthy.  Black all to often feels showy or expensive, perhaps from the association with expensive cars, tuxedos and formal wear.  Brown really strips those notions away.

Historically, I think brown may have been equally popular for suits and dresses amongst plain dressed Quakers.  I have even heard of brown felt broad brimmed hats and bonnets.

When Prince Albert died in the early 1800's, Queen Victoria's court went into official mourning and dignified society across the Western world responded in kind by using black as the colour of official dress.   Plain dressing sects in this modern age have adopted black in much of their clothing, but historically, brown and gray have been the colors of humility and sober living.

If one experiments with brown, I think an interesting dynamic will be found.  Perhaps it exudes a sense of being closer to the earth? more humility?

How many cars are painted with a deep brown colour in today's market?

How many sports teams or Restaurant chains achieve huge success using the colour brown?

How many advertisements or decorators incorporate brown as a main attention grabber in their displays?

Simply put, I find that wearing brown helps one blend into the natural surroundings of the Earth, appear less obtrusive or outstanding in the presence of others, and exhibits a calmness to the viewer, without the eye catching qualities of brighter or more stark hues.

Permalink Reply by Mackenzie on 11th mo. 17, 2011 at 3:38pm

Meg Hill-Grigson said:

I had to chuckle at the timing of your post. I just came from my favorite thrift shop where I saw a beautiful coat, wool and cashmere, needs nothing to make it wearable except the shoulder pads removed, practically new, that is on half price sale for 3.75 and which I need. The only thing against it is that it is in color. It's plaid. It's soft blues and greens with tiny flecks of pink with a lovely hazy effect that looks like the mists of Scotland. It comes with a matching shawl like scarf that would serve as a hood. It's in color. It fits like a dream! It's in color.

I'm the one who started a thread about crafting/handmaking, so that probably has something to do with this but...

I tend to figure if it's something relatively easy to weave (so...not a brocade), it's "plain enough".  That allows for stripes & tartans but no Hawaiian shirts :)

I don't have issues with depression that are for me - exacerbated by color or lack of it - mine comes from stress and grief and ironically enough through simplifying my life to eliminate one more thing to think about - clothes and style and going to dark simple colors made it better. I love not thinking about what "works" with what.

Since I don't tend to worry about whether a coat "matches" with...anything... I don't see it as a thing that would require more concentration in dressing. There's the heavy coat, the rain coat, and the sweater.

Permalink Reply by Mackenzie on 11th mo. 17, 2011 at 3:41pm

Joseph Stalnaker said:

I do appreciate your openness and efforts for clarity on this subject.  Dressing plain is definitely something to be done with consideration for all of the many angles it involves.   Certainly colour is a specific aspect to be thought of, and the message its use announces.

Some Old Order plain dressing religious groups forbid the wearing of red, not only for the message of boldness or pride that it exhibits, but also for its connection with blood.  This may sound far fetched but is literally the case in some groups.

Gray has traditionally been considered a somber color, indicative of the wearers sobriety.

I have found that wearing brown, particularly a solid, basic and deep brown, feels very natural and earthy.  Black all to often feels showy or expensive, perhaps from the association with expensive cars, tuxedos and formal wear.  Brown really strips those notions away.

Historically, I think brown may have been equally popular for suits and dresses amongst plain dressed Quakers.  I have even heard of brown felt broad brimmed hats and bonnets.

 

Historically, black really does denote being expensive. Black fabric from natural dyes would fade quickly, so having servants to re-dye it or the money to keep replacing the black clothing was a heavy implication of wearing black.

 

I'm also a fan of brown :) My two most frequently worn skirts are black and brown.

Permalink Reply by Caroline Gulian on 11th mo. 17, 2011 at 10:43pm

Paula, keep me updated as I would be interested.  You can reach me directly at moret25@hotmail.com

 

in Peace, Caroline

Paula McConnell said:

Caroline,

 

How interesting that you have mentioned the difficulty in finding Quaker plain options! I am discerning the leading to open an online store that sells Quaker specific wear. 

 

I agree that grey can be very beautiful. I have a dress pattern from Friends Patterns that is rather difficult and I plan to construct the dress this winter as an experiment in - you guessed it - grey. :)

 

~paula

Caroline Gulian said:

I like the color gray.  It is very peaceful, kind of like heather or a misty morning.  However it is difficult to find plain dresses in gray.  I cannot make my own, and the websites that sell them usually don't use plain gray.

 

In peace, Caroline

Permalink Reply by Kristen McLewin on 11th mo. 22, 2011 at 12:14am

I'm enjoying the discussion!  I wear modern plain with a headcovering.  I stick mainly to navy, brown, and dark green.  Any subdued, darker color seems right to me.  I do wear black shoes, stockings, and coats because they are simple to find and they go with everything.  I don't generally wear bright colors, though I have a few red shirts that still find use for sleeping and outdoor chores at home.  When they wear out, I won't replace with that color.

Paula, I would also like to be kept informed of your business idea.

Blessings,

Kristen

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