Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mary Lindsey on 11th mo. 6, 2011 at 5:27pm

Loved your  "lol....ok" Ray!  Welcome back!

I agree with everything that you have written.  I think that acting in the world from a place of inner-listening may be constantly or more readily available for some, and therefore they seen to need less sitting in the silence.  For me,  I want more of this silence and I would like to experience this with others, and not just individually  -  I do find this increases my inner peace and mindfulness!

 

An update for all:  It has taken a while to move forward in starting this gathering and  November 14 we have our first Meeting for Silence.  (We had one Meeting in Oct that was Silence followed by planning).  It is taking the form of an Interfaith Meeting for Silence where those of other faith and practices are invited and the readings for discussion include Quaker writings as well as other writings, including Buddhist writings.  It is a small group of 3 or 4 individuals, and I anticipate that it will grow as we settle into this Meeting Practice.

 

Ray -- how does your Meeting practice this contemplative silence?  Is it only on First Day in Meeting for Worship?  Are there other opportunities within the Meeting?

Ray Dowling said:

lol ... ok

 

As I practice it Quakerism is contemplative. Our activity in the world extends out of the contemplation (& listening) of MfW.   Perosnally, I see Contemplation as my 'religion' and Quakerism as my practice of Contemplation which should outwork itself as Mindful Living.

Permalink Reply by Jim Wilson on 11th mo. 7, 2011 at 11:17am

I agree with Ray's statement, I think.  I'm not really sure.

 

For me the difference between a contemplative Quaker and an activist Quaker has to do with how they think of silent worship.  It's a matter of emphasis.  In a blog post I put it that for the Activist silent worship is a means towards other ends.  These ends might be political or simply to be more calm in everyday interactions.  There is a range of application, though my observation is that most Activist Quakers construe silent worship as a means for more effective political activity.

 

For the contemplative, silent worship is not a means, it is the purpose, or reason, for gathering.  I think of it this way: the contemplatives arrange the activities of life so that they can have regular periods of silent worship.  The activist looks at silent worship as a means for cultivating effective activity outside of gathered silence.  For the contemplative, silent worship is what makes life meaningful.  For the activist, silent worship makes meaningful activity more accessible.

 

The above may be an oversimplification.  On the other hand, in this time of Quaker activism, it seems descriptive of a general direction.

 

Thanks,

 

Jim

 

Permalink Reply by Tom Smith on 11th mo. 7, 2011 at 11:54am

To me the issue is not an either - or. As I read Friends history, as well as the Gospels, the "activists" who seemed to be most "successful" were often those who were quite contemplative. Jesus, who was clearly an activist at times - even unto death - withdrew for "contemplation" on a number of occasions. John Woolman often looked to "silent worship" during extended periods of time away from his very activist periods.

 

I do appreciate the times of "worship sharing" when expressions of activism are welcomed, but we also need to make time for contemplation.  Is there a way to provide a "forum" before or after the Meeting for Worship?

Permalink Reply by Mary Lindsey on 11th mo. 7, 2011 at 1:51pm

I believe that core to Quaker is that activism rises out of contemplation, of inner listening and waiting.  Does Quaker have a word or description for ego?  I think there is a big difference between activism that rises from ego versus being moved or led by the spirit.  Outwardly they may look the same -- to an extent.  In my experience, activism or any action that is moved and led by spirit is almost beyond words -- it happens it flows.  This is where sitting in silence is so important to my spiritual path.  It allows direction and insight to rise up within me -- it is not mine, it did not come from me, rather it comes through me.  This experience rises from inner peace and and has a quality to it that spreads this peaceful feeling to others .  Activism from the ego lacks this same quality and sometimes breeds conflict and discord among those involved.  Cultivating inner-peace from which to act in the world -- this is what appeals so strongly to me about have a "Meeting for Silence."  The silence continues long after this sitting in silence has concluded.

Permalink Reply by Ray Dowling on 11th mo. 11, 2011 at 7:19pm

The difference for me is that I can be an activist for all the issues I care about without being a Quaker.

 

I do not need Quakerism to be concerned about issues and to act upon those concerns. I did so as a Nazarene/ Holiness (Wesleyan) Christian before I 'moved home.'

 

However, only quietism (of whatever form, be it Hesychasm, Rosary, Zazen, Thinking whatever) offers space for contemplation; and Quakerism offers me this queitist 'edge' I am inclined towards.

 

However, there are forms of 'quietism' which say little about activism (Zen for example, is about mind, that is it's concern, I'm not criticising, that's what it's about) and so that is the reason why Quakerism is a double sided treasure-coin.

 

From the outset Quakerism is concerned with Quietist practice & Activist living.

 

This reponse isn't well written I know but I think I communicate my point (?)

 

 

Permalink Reply by Jim Wilson on 11th mo. 12, 2011 at 10:14am

Friend Ray:

 

I think I understand your point.  It is something I have thought about myself.  Your point that one does not have to be a Quaker in order to be an activist is, I think, crucial.  It appears to me that many Quakers today define the Quaker tradition in activist terms; but that would make the Quaker tradition primarily a political society; perhaps an auxiliary to various political movements.  In addition, I don't think reform movements need Quakers in order to be successful.

 

I find the heart of the Quaker tradition in its Quietism, in its inward turning.  That is what attracted me to Quakers and that is why I continue to attend.  The political/activist dimension is a very distant second for me.

 

Thanks for your insights,

 

Jim

Permalink Reply by Ray Dowling on 11th mo. 14, 2011 at 6:04pm

Friend Jim

 

We are in agreement except that I see the activism as a very close second rather than distant.

 

Blessings to you.

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