Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by William F Rushby on 1st mo. 21, 2011 at 2:18pm

Hello, Karen:

Birthright membership has created havoc in Ohio Yearly Meeting, which lists many people as members who have never made any serious commitment to Christ, the Quaker faith or the yearly meeting.  One of the most flagrant cases is that of a birthright member of OYM who is a bishop in the Mormon church!!!  There are also birthright associate members who are children of associate members.  Someday soon there may be grandchildren of Associate Members, who are also Associate members!  Associate membership is a temporary status, which is supposed to end at the age of 25, I believe.

 

Bill

Permalink Reply by William F Rushby on 1st mo. 21, 2011 at 2:50pm

Richard Miller wrote that Conservative Friends do not believe in the Iron Law of Oligarchy.  Unfortunately, the Iron Law of Oligarchy is part of the dynamics of social organizations.  It operates whether one believes in it or not!  Awareness and corrective action may help to restrain oligarchical tendencies, just as lubricants help to mitigate the effects of friction--but they do not eliminate them!

 

When the yearly meeting is the principal unit for decision-making, power becomes concentrated in the hands of those who are able to attend and who function actively on the yearly meeting level.  Thus, retired people, educators who have more time off in the summer than 40 hour a week people, the affluent who can afford the expenses associated with attending yearly meeting , those who live nearby, and yearly meeting (including Friends School) employees end up with more power than others.  "We are all equal here, and some of us are more equal than others."

 

In addition to these factors, there are others that tend to concentrate power.  Those with "insider knowledge" can use it to gain extra power.  Those who control the flow of information, including mail and email, can manipulate who knows what; "information is power, and the lack of information is disenfranchisement!"  In Ohio Yearly Meeting forming cliques is an important way to control decision-making and concentrate power.  Believe me, I have seen it all!

 

Level of education, prestige (based on genealogy, wealth, and occupation), and speaking ability also contribute to the concentration of power in the hands of a few.

 

What is really important about Michels' work is his awareness that power tends to become concentrated in the hands of a few even in democratic organizations.  Manford Kuhn, a prominent sociologist, was reared in the Five Years Meeting (now Friends United Meeting).  He once observed that FYM (FUM) has more oligarchs than the Old Order Amish who, on paper, are a more hierarchical church.

 

So, Friends, oligarchy is an organizational fact of life.  We need to be aware of it, and do our best to mitigate its effects.  My observation is that oligarchy has negative effects on Friends, especially Conservative Friends.

 

 

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Karen Mercer on 1st mo. 21, 2011 at 9:51pm

I can see where that would become a problem. I had assumed that the birthright membership was "extended" to the person (for them to take up by stating so or at least continuing to attend or else refuse/stop attending) and not bestowed regardless.

I wonder if somehow I am still on the Presbyterian books simply because I was christened there...

Permalink Reply by Howard Brod on 4th mo. 9, 2012 at 9:35pm

As a child I came from a Christian tradition, and found my way as an adult to a liberal Quaker meeting where I've been quite comfortable with their recognition of the value of Jesus' teachings, as well as the value of a universalist outlook.

But what I'm curious about is how the conservative tradition has handled emerging social issues during the last century. I'm thinking of civil rights for example. Were conservative Friends involved in the civil rights movement or was this frowned upon? And how do conservative Friends view gay rights in our own day. I know that here in Virginia, I believe Virginia Beach Meeting (part of North Carolina Yearly Meeting Conservative) supports gay marriage. Is that unusual for a conservative meeting? I ask because if I ever moved to where there was only a conservative meeting, I'd be fine with the emphasis on Jesus, but support for gay rights would be important to me since I have a gay son, making me sensitive to this issue.

Permalink Reply by Liz Opp on 4th mo. 9, 2012 at 10:31pm

Only after seeing Howard Brod's comment have I decided to chime in.  My membership is currently with a Liberal meeting in Minnesota, but I have "affinity" for Iowa Yearly Meeting (Conservative), and I often attend their yearly meeting sessions.  

Regarding inclusiveness of lesbian and gay Friends, as well as same-sex couples (including, I presume, Friends who identify as bisexual or transgender), I'll lift up a few things:

1. As a yearly meeting, Iowa Conservative Friends--not to be confused with Iowa FUM--very much welcome same-sex couples and the individual Friends within them.  IYMC's Book of Discipline currently reads, in part, "IYM(C) strives to be a community where all Friends can find love and acceptance in their efforts to establish committed relationships, regardless of sexual orientation." 

2.  A bit further in the Discipline, there is this minute from 1998:  "Yearly Meeting rests its trust in the leadings of the Spirit within its individual monthly meetings. Therefore, if individuals in committed relationships ask to be recognized by their monthly meeting in a ceremony of commitment or marriage, and if that monthly meeting reaches clearness under the guidance of the Spirit to take the marriage under its care, Iowa Yearly Meeting (Conservative) records the union. We affirm that the Spirit of God summons us to extend love and opportunity with equal generosity to all human beings, regardless of sexual orientation. Friends have a special responsibility to be aware of infringements of civil rights and to work to correct them. Minute approved at the 1998 annual sessions of IYM(C)"

My understanding is that Ohio Yearly Meeting is beginning to grapple with the possibility that same-gender attraction may not be a sin--though I have been out of that loop for a year or more.  North Carolina Yearly Meeting (Conservative) has warmly welcomed me and other Friends who identify as "anything but straight" and are in same-sex relationships.  

But I want to return to Karen's original question, about "the stress they place on different parts of the traditional practices."  Having visited both NCYMC and IYMC in recent years, and weighing those experiences with what I have read and heard about Ohio Yearly Meeting, it seems to me that Ohio YM places the greatest weight on use of Scripture to discern/know Truth; NCYMC has the greatest degree of "extroversion" and willingness to express joy through Scripture; and IYMC has the greatest degree of "introversion" and a slowness-out-of-concern to not impose their own understanding of Divine Truth onto that of others.  

I understand that all three yearly meetings continue to rely on expectant waiting/waiting worship/open worship, including during Meetings for Worship for Business, though the balance of waiting worship as compared to moving ahead with anticipated/prepared business ranges, with Ohio YM having the most open worship, out of which business is addressed; and both NCYMC and IYMC having a bit of open worship before and between agenda items.

Honestly, though, the only way to get a feel for how each yearly meeting carries out certain Quaker disciplines and traditions is to "come and see," when you have opportunity. 

Blessings,

Liz

Permalink Reply by kevin roberts on 4th mo. 11, 2012 at 6:55pm

My understanding is that Ohio Yearly Meeting is beginning to grapple with the possibility that same-gender attraction may not be a sin--though I have been out of that loop for a year or more.

 

yes. it's an issue with a lot of energy associated with it, but we're seeking unity on it together now, rather than assuming a unity that wasn't there.

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