"Faith for Jesus is the opposite of anxiety. If you are anxious, if you're trying to control everything, if you are worried about many things, you don't have faith, according to Jesus. You do not trust that God is good and on your side. You're trying to do it all yourself, lift yourself up by your own bootstraps.

"The giveaway is control. That's a good litmus test for the quality of your faith. People of faith don't have to control everything, nor do they have to change people...."

[Richard Rohr, Jesus' Plan for a New World: The Sermon on the Mount]

Views: 623

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Norman, your assumptions are embedded in your choice of words, and you can't really expect anyone else to agree that putting them in that form renders them immune from examination and criticism.

I am not 'defensive' but 'offensive.' But however much I like people setting up easy shots for me, I really do feel better when they have insights to offer. 

If you have experiences of what we're talking about, fine -- and you're wondering whether you should trust them, we might talk about that. If the issue is whether we should trust what we trust, well, the answer is simply that we do.

James C Schultz said:

As a generalization I would think that most of the time, most of us are not truly seeking the truth.  This is the wisdom of quaker worship if we open ourselves up to the Spirit the truth can get 'dumped' on us before we realize what has happened.  I am inclined to believe many of the attempts to impose quaker order during worship are attempts to limit how much "truth" does in fact get "dumped" at one sitting so we can have a chance to rationalize it away.


My wife Anne & I both loved this, but that obviously can't be the intention!

The explanations I've heard go like this: "We want to have a nice, peaceful hour of worshipful silence, not have people disrupting that experience."

But if people are encountering the living God, then we can't count on that being a peaceful experience, being completed on schedule -- or being undisturbed by contrary viewpoints.

But-but if we tried to have a 'no holds barred' Quaker Meeting -- featuring the people we are, as is -- It would be a serious challenge to keep 'seeking the truth' and stop trying to  'keep holding our end up' instead. (Not even 'trying to', just habitually unable to set it down even for a moment! On religious questions? -- maybe -- but political ones? Hah!)

I'd be afraid to go to such a meeting but I'd want to. The rest of my Meeting? Hmmm, four people at most -- (but then we might get back a lot of people who've given up on us?)

That "rationalize it away" aspect? Partly, people really do need to change our minds gradually, to get used to a new outlook and see where things fit in it... but every time, whether we'd touched the heights or just limped along at treetop level: After the Meeting we all revert to our 'social selves'. I hate this! (Should we be praying for an answer, how to address that issue?)

Reply to Discussion

RSS

Support Us

Did you know that QuakerQuaker is 100% reader supported? If you think this kind of outreach and conversation is important, please support it with a monthly subscription or one-time gift.


You can also make a one-time donation.

Latest Activity

Chris Holmes updated their profile
1st month 10
TJ Victor updated their profile
1st month 9
Kirby Urner replied to Kirby Urner's discussion 'Exhibit: some Friends discussing Racism'
"Me on Facebook, Jan 2,…"
1st month 2
Keith Saylor commented on Rainer Möller's blog post 'Quakers unto the Civil War'
"I forgot to add, Whittier's reference to Mezentius and his struggle…"
12th month 29, 2020
Keith Saylor commented on Rainer Möller's blog post 'Quakers unto the Civil War'
"Whittier, in his 1833 Justice and Prejudice, writes: "Far be it from me to cast new…"
12th month 29, 2020
Forrest Curo commented on Rainer Möller's blog post 'Quakers unto the Civil War'
"We don't get wars because God wants to harm us, but because the way we are still leads to harm…"
12th month 29, 2020
Rainer Möller commented on Rainer Möller's blog post 'Quakers unto the Civil War'
"Many thanks to you, Keith Saylor As for the poem, it poses a lot of questions: Was…"
12th month 28, 2020
Keith Saylor commented on Rainer Möller's blog post 'Quakers unto the Civil War'
"Hello Rainer, Thank you for pointing to In War Time. I've read it a couple times now. Need to…"
12th month 26, 2020

© 2021   Created by QuakerQuaker.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service