Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David Carl on 6th mo. 13, 2009 at 11:38am

Hi Jeffrey,

I am a Christian Friend in a liberal meeting. Here are a few of the things that help me.

1. Understanding that Quakerism is historically Christian (and presently so for the majority of Friends), and not merely a "form" of Christianity, but an attempt to truly recapture the Gospel message in our lives.

2. Staying grounded in the Quaker and wider Christian tradition through reading journals and blogs, etc. I also particpate in a Christian ecumenical group in my community (Emmaus).

3. Recalling that Quakerism has a strong "universal" component to it. There's debate about what this consists of, but basically I take it to mean that the light of Christ is available to all people, even though they may not call it that.

4. Recalling that Jesus associated with people of all stripes and conditions. I find that the challenge and unease of relating to people who may even strongly disapprove of Christianity gives me the opportunity to grow in Christ. This reminds me of the worship song, "They Will Know We Are Christians by our Love" -- though I do not claim to have always been the perfect exemplar!

5. Meeting with a smaller group of Friends to mutually affirm and grow in Christian faith.

6. Discerning where God wants me to be. Since I started out my Quaker journey as a non-Christian, and yet found Christ in a liberal meeting, I believe my calling is to stay where I am and be of service there. However, this is my own experience and you of course must discern for yourself where God calls you.

7. Discerning the source of my own unease over differences. Is it based in fear, egotism, a need to be "in control?" Or do I allow myself to be led by God's love and wisdom?

8. Understanding that all human institutions, including Quaker meetings, are imperfect. I might imagine that the "perfect church" exists somewhere else, but in reality I know that wherever else I might go, there will be opportunities for unease arising from differing perspectives.

Another option some Friends have taken is to form meetings or worship groups that are explicitly centered in Christianity, in some cases clearly reflecting this in the title, e.g., "Friends in Christ."

In the final analysis, however, the centerpiece of Quaker faith (in its "classical" form, at least) is that Christ is our "teacher within," and that by waiting expectantly in stillness His guidance will be made known to us. While I hope that my thoughts may be of some use to you, I pray that you will seek out and find His way for you.

Blessings,

David

Permalink Reply by Nathan Swift on 6th mo. 13, 2009 at 3:03pm

David's post is an outstanding list of things that will probably help. You do not say whether you have actually encountered hostility to your Christian witness, but I know that it does happen and you may in the future. I think it may help to consider from two distinct standpoints that institutional Christianity has had a long history of exclusion, reading Jesus' statement, "I am the way..." as EXclusive rather than INclusive. The point of an inclusive reading is that Jesus embodied the Way of relating to God and our fellow humans, and anyone who comes into a relationship with the Father comes in that Way, not necessarily through recognizing Jesus. The two standpoints for regarding this long tradition are from the point of view of those who have been hurt, some very deeply, by that exclusiveness, and from the point of view of one who was brought up in institutional Christianity and imbibed that exclusive perception almost as mother's milk. Both standpoints are going to require some serious laboring to work through.

In His Love,
Nate

Permalink Reply by Forrest Curo on 6th mo. 13, 2009 at 4:36pm

Well, there was Alan Lew. He took up Buddhist meditation, & when he'd gotten deeply into it, determined that he needed to return to Judaism & study to be a rabbi. Of course he doesn't think that God is either Jewish or Buddhist. Is God a Quaker? Or entirely 'a Christian'?

& a woman at our yearly meeting, in a group talking specifically about Jesus... She'd been meditating when she saw a vision; she knew she was seeing Jesus. "What are you doing here? This is a Buddhist place!" He told her, "I need you to be a Christian."

Different ideas about the meaning of "Christ"... Perhaps closer to what you might mean by "the Spirit"?

There may well be something about God that your Friends aren't seeing. Would that be one reason you need to be there with them? (The other, to see what about God they may need to show you?)

Permalink Reply by Jeffrey Carr on 6th mo. 13, 2009 at 8:10pm

Dear Friends,
Thank you for your advice. I shall spend time reflecting on what you wrote.
Peace
Jeffrey

Permalink Reply by Margaret Bienert on 6th mo. 13, 2009 at 10:08pm

These posts have really helped me as well!

Margaret

Permalink Reply by Jan Lyn Lewis on 7th mo. 12, 2009 at 3:25pm

Good question, Jeffrey and I've found this to be helpful for myself as well. I actually printed out David's response to think on further this week.

Recently, my mindset has been one in which I know that I do not compromise my own beliefs within attending my meeting, but remain open to listen and learn from others. I think the important detail for myself is not to waver, but know who I am, but also know that the entire community of Friends, and really the world is like an "extended family" of equal people deserving to be respected and loved the same. That thought helps me.

In Friendship,
Jan Lyn

Permalink Reply by Alice M Yaxley on 7th mo. 17, 2009 at 7:11pm

I share your unease. I find myself committed to the Quaker understanding of following Christ Jesus, not quite sure what those other folks are along for!

Permalink Reply by Nikolas Southwell on 10th mo. 17, 2009 at 2:05pm

Yes I have found exactly the same problem at my meeting in the UK. I believe that the light is available to all, regardless of their circumstances, but that it IS the light of Christ! I think it is wonderful that all people are able to come to worship....but to me Quakerism IS Christian....I simply feel that there is no such thing as a "non theist" Quaker, only secular humanists with a broadly similar philosophy. I feel that those who are uncomfortable with a Christian identity would be better off not joining a Christian group. I know that this may be controversial but its how I feel.

Permalink Reply by Mitsuoh on 10th mo. 21, 2009 at 11:57pm

Hello brother,

To me, Quakerism is elemental Christianity. I'm still not entirely sure what I think of hybrid Quakerism, but I find solace in the fact that Christianity as a whole is renewing, becoming more elemental and radical and full of Spirit and life. I'm thinking, of course, of the emergent church phenomenon. There's a wide area of overlap between elemental Christians of the Quaker variety and elemental Christians of the emergent church variety. I am in unity with all of them. I am not in unity with those who identify as Quakers but draw themselves away from elemental Christianity, and I no longer seem to feel bad for recognizing this.

I think that this is because I have no particular attachment to the label "Quaker," and thus do not feel the need to attempt to account for all uses of that term. However, I do believe that Quakers got it right the first time, and that the emergent church folks are starting to catch on. This is where I stand in Quakerism: in unity with other Christians who are converging at the primal center of our faith. I hope it helps you to realize that, regardless of what label you may choose, you are in unity with all those who recognize the living Christ as their teacher and guide. At least, this realization has helped me.

blessings,
stephen

Permalink Reply by Ganeida on 9th mo. 9, 2010 at 2:56am

Jeffery: Australian Quakerism seems by its very nature to be new ageish & I am careful to weigh spoken ministry against the scriptures when I am actually able to attend my Meeting but although I have a strong vocal ministry, which is exercised in other denominations, I have, so far, been silent in Meeting ~ & anything I had to say I would not expect to be taken well. Long complicated story & not to the point here. However, the very silence allows one to meet with God on the terms you are most comfortable with. Silent worship best addresses my condition in ways other denominations simply can't ~ & I've tried a few.

I am however, a *lone Quaker*. I actually live on an island & there are no other Quakers here so to some degree I have autonomy of worship & use several on~line friendships for fellowship. ☺ Probably not very helpful but my choices are limited & I work with what I can.

Permalink Reply by William F Rushby on 9th mo. 9, 2010 at 11:09am

It sounds as if Christian Friends in the eastern part of Australia need to get together periodically, to worship, fellowship and encourage each other.
Bill Rushby

Permalink Reply by Forrest Curo on 9th mo. 9, 2010 at 12:07pm

I, too, feel that "non-Theist Quaker" is an example of mislabelling-- but God has made such people a major part of the society we inhabit-- and brought in such a significant number that they'd already come to dominate many Meetings long before I joined one myself (thinking, at the time, "There are still some people trying to live true Christianity, and I think I want to do that!")

At Pendle Hill, when one teacher asked us a question about "our faith community", I was boggled. What's that?-- I don't have any such thing!

Last night I stumbled on this Brian McLaren quote: "... We have every reason to believe that even now we are in a stage of understanding that's a step up from where we used to be, but a step below where we could venture next. To be a member of a faith community, in this understanding, is not to be a lucky member of the group that has finally arrived; it is to be in a cohort that is learning together."

Well, that's fine; I had education profs with good things to say about one-room schools, all grades together with the older tutoring the younger... but even if you had a lot of kids in kindergarten status plus one or two on high school material, there'd be general agreement that there was a teacher present, and things to be learned.

It's a very odd variation, if 9/10 of the kids can't see the teacher, and won't let the older kids waste their time with any of that 'study' stuff...

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